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Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Fuel Additives

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I have a 1997 2500 with a 12 valve Cummins that just turned 200,000 miles. I read about how good all these fuel additives are and the benifits they can provide. They can clean the carbon build up, they can lubracate the injectors, they can improve fuel economy, they can restore horsepower on and on and on. Now my Cummins runs fine, mostly highway milage, I get, if I keep the rpm's at or below 2,000, 21 to 23 miles per gallion and for a 6,800 lb truck that's not bad. My question is, are these fuel additives a good thing or just a bunch of money grubbing hype?

Thank's

Ron H.
 
I do, on occasion, use two cycle oil for lubricity. Don't expect any performance enhancements at all. May not help, but doesn't hurt. BTW, my '96 has never done 21 mpg. Best has been a tad below 20.
 
Local Cummins shop owner showed me an injection pump that was worn out from running ULSD. This was not caused by a lift pump failure, it was simple wear and tear. He says he rarely saw this in the old days. He sells Stanadyne, and swears he sees no profit, only does it for customers. Many TDR posters use it but that stuff is $$$. If you recall, the old DO felt greasy between your fingers. That's the aromatics, which get removed in sulphur removal process. ULSD is very light, like kerosene. Refiners are supposed to mix in lubricity improvers but there are no federal standards. If I owned a 1st Gen I'd be running biodiesel blend B20. I run a 2% blend in my 3rd Gen. Best lubricity improver out there. If you change, be warned, bio scrubs your fuel system clean. If you switch, ease into it with lower % blend. Filter changes are recommended. That said, changing things (additives, fuel, lubes etc) on old high mileage engines can cause problems. Sometimes best to leave well enough alone.
 
My vote is for Stanadyne. I "used to be" a fuel tech. in a shop in twin cities, MN. It was the best then (30 yrs ago), it's still the best now. Just reafirmed that yesterday talking to my old boss. Any good fuel shop will tell you the same. Power Service #2 in a pinch. Don't use any "oil" that is not ment for diesel applications. Do a search on that, there is plenty of info out there.
 
I put some 2 cycle motor oil in the fuel every time I fuel up. Over 400 Thousand miles of trouble free operation.
 
The use of fuel additives should not be taken lightly. USE THEM ONLY if you are ready to accept the challenge of the following





FASTER THAN A SPEEDING BULLET TRUCK

MORE POWER THAN A SPEEDING LOCAMOTIVE

IF YOU HAVE A 4X4 YOU WILL BE ABLE TO CLIMB OUT OF THE GRAND CANYON

A TRUCK THAT CAN PULL THE MOUNTAINS OUT OF THE WAY

NEVER NEED TO PULL INTO A FUEL STOP AGAIN

HAVE THE ABLITY TO SEE AROUND THE SMOKE FROM THE TIRE BURNING POWER

THE ABLITY TO IGNORE THE WIFE OR SIGNIFIGANT OTHER SCREAMING AT YOU





And the money to pay for the tickets that will be coming your way from SMOKEY. Yes you will need a bodyguard to keep the girls or in some cases the guys from shredding your clothes off and doing unmentionable things to you.



AND ALL BECAUSE YOU!!!!!!!! CHOOSE TO USE FUEL ADDITIVES ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH?
 
Yep, man enough here. Not sure about the clothes ripping scene. Hate to see them a bit dissapointed, At my age, I'm a little hard to impress or embaress.
 
Just stopped yesterday in Pensacola, FL for a P0073/P0107 air temp/baro press. code. Talking to their experienced diesel tech (40 something so he's not a kid) & picked his brain for 30 min. We talked ULSD vs fuel lubricity additives, and he's in general agreement with supplementing our "modern" fuels. I've been using Lucas in Summer, then Howes during Winter. We've been RV'g 30% of the miles. [Harvey reminds me to consider using CRC Bio Con if my stay here down South this time of year is extended past a month. The cool nights condense the days' moisture in the tank. Water I'm told is deadly to our equipment. ]

Anyway, he recently attended a Cummins training seminar which mentioned their support of using CRC Diesel Therapy to clean the injector pintel check valve which is very small. Their testing showed it was the only product to date, successful at this task, which goes a long way toward smoothing roughness.

I would avoid the low cost use of 2 Cycle oil as an additive. It's not designed for our combustion pressures & temperatures, but rather for outboard motors & chainsaws. Suggest going with something that is.
 
Walter,

I quote you,,,,"It's not designed for our combustion pressures & temperatures, but rather for outboard motors & chainsaws. Suggest going with something that is. "



On what authority do you state this, please give me a scientific reason to believe you... ;)



I have engineered Nuclear Power Plants etc. I know a little about oils. I find nothing that would back up your claim. Thanks :)
 
I told you on the other forum and I'll tell you again. Over 935,000 miles, thousands of gallons of ULSD and absolutely no need for a fuel additive. I had an engine oil leak on my injection pump at about 750,000 miles. The repair was a new oil seal, a new shaft and a gasket set for reassembly. NOT ONE fuel lubed part needed replacement! I am currently running the first replacement set of injectors. The old ones didn't fail, the holes had become enlarged due to the quantity of fuel that had been pumped thru them. They had 470k on them. Use an additive if it makes you feel good. It won't make your engine last any longer, any mileage gain will cost your more than straight #2 will (cost per mile), you won't see any performance gains and your wallet will be lighter.
 
When I was working for a living had a Bosch p7100 pump redone, lots of miles not running well, put on engine would always stall when idled down ie stopping truck etc. Found it was a seal on the rack, this was at the beginning of winter and this was a snow plough truck so being out of service wasn't happening, to finish the winter, used one quart of Stanadyne in each fuel tank each day some times more it worked! Had a VW with the PD engine diesel with fuel system like Cummins big engine I started with regular Stanadyne,then used there performance blend was better then I tryed Power Up better again. The changes were better fuel mileage and performance I use the Power Up or Gen49 in my CR it seems to work nicer, its lubricity is right up there with bio fuel. Then as GAmes says lots of miles and no coditioner in all the other units at work. Laurie
 
My question is, are these fuel additives a good thing or just a bunch of money grubbing hype?

Thank's

Ron H.



I think you could use either one of your own answers.



How can a few ounces of any product make a difference in 35 gal of fuel? It might help if you used it in a large enough quantity, however then it would be cost prohibitive.



The best thing you can do for your fuel system is run on the top half of your fuel tank. The cost is the same as the bottom half... ...



Nick
 
And always buy your DO at high volume retail outlets. Win/win here, lowest cost is biggest turnover. I also avoid above ground tanks. Larger swings in DeltaT promote condensation. Not to close the door on this issue, to each his own of course, lubricity improvement aside I think you will find Cetane# as the key to improved performance with additives. Higher cetane should quiet down the 12v and 24v engines a bit by advancing and lenghtening the ignition angle. Better fuel economy and performance with lower exh temperatures (less heat going out the pipe, more put to work). The new CR engines use multiple injection events to improve igntion but they should also benefit from higher cetane. Stanadyne PF is a noted cetane improver. Note the higher cetane rating of biodiesel at end of this Wiki piece:



DefinitionCetane number or CN is a measure of a fuel's ignition delay, the time period between the start of injection and the first identifiable pressure increase during combustion of the fuel. In a particular diesel engine, higher cetane fuels will have shorter ignition delay periods than lower cetane fuels. Cetane numbers are only used for the relatively light distillate diesel oils. For heavy (residual) fuel oil two other scales are used CCAI and CII. In short, the higher the Cetane number the more easily the fuel will combust in a compression setting (such as a diesel engine).



[edit] Typical valuesGenerally, diesel engines operate well with a CN from 40 to 55. Fuels with higher cetane number have shorter ignition delays, providing more time for the fuel combustion process to be completed. Hence, higher speed diesel engines operate more effectively with higher cetane number fuels.



In Europe, diesel cetane numbers were set at a minimum of 38 in 1994 and 40 in 2000. The current standard for diesel sold in European Union, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland is set in EN 590, with a minimum cetane index of 46 and a minimum cetane number of 51. Premium diesel fuel can have a cetane number as high as 60. [2]



In North America, most states adopt ASTM D975 as their diesel fuel standard and the minimum cetane number is set at 40, with typical values in the 42-45 range. Premium diesels may or may not have higher cetane, depending on the supplier. Premium diesel often use additives to improve CN and lubricity, detergents to clean the fuel injectors and minimize carbon deposits, water dispersants, and other additives depending on geographical and seasonal needs.



[edit] AdditivesAlkyl nitrates (principally 2-ethyl hexyl nitrate [1]) and di-tert-butyl peroxide are used as additives to raise the cetane number.



[edit] Alternative fuelsBiodiesel from vegetable oil sources have been recorded as having a cetane number range of 46 to 52, and animal-fat based biodiesels cetane numbers range from 56 to 60. [3]Dimethyl ether is a potential diesel fuel as it has a high cetane rating (55) and can be produced as a biofuel. [4]
 
I told you on the other forum and I'll tell you again. Over 935,000 miles, thousands of gallons of ULSD and absolutely no need for a fuel additive. I had an engine oil leak on my injection pump at about 750,000 miles. The repair was a new oil seal, a new shaft and a gasket set for reassembly. NOT ONE fuel lubed part needed replacement! I am currently running the first replacement set of injectors. The old ones didn't fail, the holes had become enlarged due to the quantity of fuel that had been pumped thru them. They had 470k on them. Use an additive if it makes you feel good. It won't make your engine last any longer, any mileage gain will cost your more than straight #2 will (cost per mile), you won't see any performance gains and your wallet will be lighter.



Mr GAmes

Congrats on the mileage of your wagon VERY IMPRESSIVE I hope someday to get mine to that arena. I see you did it in an 97 1ton? just kicking some ideas and thoughts around. Do you think that the style of pump and not the HIGH PRESSUE of a COMMON RAIL might have played a big role in your achievement. Just a thinking that MAYBE a CR system might use the advantage of the lube.



BIG
 
Mr GAmes

Congrats on the mileage of your wagon VERY IMPRESSIVE I hope someday to get mine to that arena. I see you did it in an 97 1ton? just kicking some ideas and thoughts around. Do you think that the style of pump and not the HIGH PRESSUE of a COMMON RAIL might have played a big role in your achievement. Just a thinking that MAYBE a CR system might use the advantage of the lube.



BIG



If there was any need what so ever, my thinking is that the 12 valves would be the ones since they were built before LSD, then ULSD was introduced. Since I haven't encountered any problems I believe the chicken little sky is falling scare of low lubricity is a scam perpetuated by the manufacturers of fuel additves. If you recall, both California and Canada had switched to ULSD with no fanfare before the rest of the US even started the years long transition. No one noticed. Then all of a sudden some moron posts on the internet an out of context report that the removal of sulphur also removes lubricity:eek: The internet panic among those who failed to collect all the info was on. The fact that additives to restore adequate lubricity was added back to the fuel was lost in the melee.



To get back on track, I don't know if CR systems would benefit. If I ever own one it will be after I get out of the trailer transport business, so I'll be in with the 10k a year crowd. But I have noticed that the proponants of 2 cycle oil think it is bad for a CR:confused: I am also of the belief that CR was designed after ULSD was introduced, so I won't use additives if I ever trade to a newer truck. The parallel to me is the switch to unleaded fuel and the sudden need for valve jobs on early gasoline engines (like the one in my wife's '54 Ford) Valves that didn't require lead for lubrication were developed and the result is you never see anyone claiming a lead additive is needed. Old engines are rebuilt with new valves and the beat goes on.



Sorry for the long post.
 
No problems on the long post just like to here what ya thought about it. I can relate to the unleaded gas part but I was hauling fuel at the time and seen many PLANT LOADING RACK problems spring up when the change was made. Same with the old diesel going to the ULSD plant failures attributed to the lack of lubrication, seals that had worked well on pumps for many years suddenly went bad when the change was made. Coincidence Maybe but then again Maybe not. I use additives and as said if it make someone feel good to have it in the tank its their tank. You have seemed to make your case in no need by looking at the mileage you have achieved.
BIG
 
Im not sure about the CR made AFTER the USLD I think it was just LSD not the ULSD could be wrong im in no shape to argue that RIGHT NOW. There was a LARGE difference in LSD and ULSD.
BIG
 
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