Fuel at local station

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Chipstien

In my 27 years I have never seen a above ground tank at a gas station unless it was propane. Is this mainly done in the midwest?

Several around here. Think it is because of all the rock in the ground.

 

[JyRO]

Amoco ultimate...

If the Amoco ultimate is purchased from the same place as all other fuels, how come its clear? Maybe all the 93 octane fuels are clear, but I thought Amoco was the only place selling the clear watery looking 93 octane. Its the only fuel I ran in my racebike, and will probably be the only fuel I run in my soon to be added to the fleet, '02 Harley Davidson Dyna Super-Glide FXD.



When I was at the gas station (Mobil) fueling my 4Runner Tuesday (6/3), gas was $1. 679. This station is also where I fuel my truck. Diesel fuel was $1. 449. I felt sorry for the V-10 drivers out there. But was happy I have the CTD. It took me darn near 30 bucks to fill the 4Runner with 17. 5 gallons.



Do they get the Amoco ultimate clear from some other place? I'm thinking they must, because it is clear.



- JyRO

 

[mcoleman]

Anyone that thinks the fuels are all the same has never actually tested a vehicle on different fuels. I race a late model vehicle with a Supercharger and can tell you there is a huge difference in fuels. When I was still driving gassers for tow vehicles I could tell the difference in fuel quality by the way the truck downshifted on certain hills. I hooked my scanner up and watched the knock retard. With good 93 octane from certain stations I would get zero knock retard and no downshifts. Poor quality fuel or 91 octane would result in 10 to 15 degrees of timing retard and a downshifting transmission also resulting in poorer gas mileage. Sure the manufacturers say they will burn 87 just fine. But to tell someone they won't run better on 93 from a reliable source is BS. I've had excellent luck with the 93 octane from both Conoco and Citgo. And I've seen small amounts of timing retard with Amoco 93 on occasion. I have never purchased a load of bad fuel for my truck and never stopped up a filter so I guess that maybe a problem out west more so than around the Ozarks area. The only problems I've seen is the 2 mpg drop during the winter months.

 

[illflem]

Any difference is in the additives. As I've seen with my own two eyes and others here in the refining industry have stated the base fuel pretty much all comes from just a few sources no matter what the brand is.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by illflem

Any difference is in the additives. As I've seen with my own two eyes and others here in the refining industry have stated the base fuel pretty much all comes from just a few sources no matter what the brand is.

Bill since the additive/lack of additive package is the wild card wouldn't it make sense to use a good DFA and add your own additive package? Seems to make sense???

 

[JyRO]

Additives...

Bill,



If additives are the difference, which I can only presume is correct, then is most of the gas before the additives clear? Maybe Amoco puts little to no additive in their "Amoco Ultimate. " I really have no idea. I'm trying to get an idea on why Amoco's ultimate is the only clear fuel.



P. S. If a crotch rocket motorcycle manufacturer's octane rating says 87 octane or better, wouldn't 87 octane fuel be better due to the higher flame rate, since the crotch rockets turn such high rpm (hence piston speed is huge)? On my racebike, it would hit the rev limiter at 15,000 rpm, which is 1,000 past redline. Generally I tried to shift just before 14,000, like 13,750 due to the h. p. torque vs. rpm charts. But with pistons moving that fast, wouldn't you be able to develop more h. p. with 87 octane than 93? I never tried it, I doubt I could've told a difference by seat of the pants. I wasn't brave enough ... I always felt safer to run 93 octane (Amoco).



- JyRO

 

[Champane Flight]

octane

Your present octanes are set for the area the gas is going to. All gas is clear, in the old days a red dye was injected along with a batch of higher octane fuel to identify it. Of course they also used lead to boost octane and lubricating factors. Most premium is around 89-93 octane at average. A certain station or dealer may add a octane boost or additive to bring this up if they see a higher demand for premium. Methanol is a common octane booster. The faster the burn, the higher the octane.



Try a little blending of your own on your bike, I used to do this with my modified bikes. Go down to the local airport and buy five gallons of 100 octane low lead, then mix it half and half with some premium. You will see a good running bike, but watch the heat, a straight 100LL will create enough heat to burn valves. Your 100LL is blue, but just another color. Kind of purty though.....

 

[mcoleman]

Aviation fuel is formulated different than normal gas for higher elevation. The reason people have burnt valves using it and damaged engines is it will cause your vehicle to run lean if you run it straight. Your jetting will have to be changed depending on the ratio you intend on using. We have ran it straight in race cars before and had to jet up 6 to 8 jet sizes to get the same performance as 112 octane. Some of the people that have bought an out of the box Holley and stuck on their car have experienced gains on straight av gas without realizing that it's because the Holley's are sold overly rich to begin with. The East coast people have the best pump gas. Good old Sunoco Ultra 94. That stuff is great. It's blue in color and even smells a little like race gas. Even some of the Grand Nationals have been able to run fairly decent boost levels running the stuff. For some reason they pulled out of Missouri. I only have one dealer in town that sells 104 unleaded race gas for late model stuff. I would love to have an outlet for at least the 99 octane as would a bunch of 11 and 12 second late model guys around town that are fighting knock retard on 93. I'll probably switch my older bracket race car over to methanol pretty soon. The cars run cooler and usually pick up 3 or 4 tenths in the 1/4 on the alcohol plus it's only 1. 00 to 1. 50 a gallon in bulk compared to 3. 99 a gallon for Cam 2. But the Cam 2 sure smells better. I'd rate it right up there with the smell of diesel in the morning.

 

[illflem]

Just asking cuz I don't know

Don't you run into rubber parts (hoses, gaskets, etc. ) melting down with straight methanol?

 

[mcoleman]

The biggest problem is making sure you have the correct fittings in your fuel system to prevent corrosion. That stuff will weld a fitting together in one season. You also have to use a fuel cell that doesn't have the foam in it. I have dash 10 braided fuel line on my car and the tube inside is supposed to be able to handle the alcohol but it still pays to check it pretty often. The fuel pump will also be different for alcohol applications. I'm sure it's different pump seals and o-rings. During the early part of the season and latter part you sometimes have to let the car run a while in the staging lanes to get it to warm up enough to run. The alcohol makes them a little cold natured and they don't warm up very fast on it. But it sure makes the engine crackle and idle rougher. They even sound more powerful. We have always drained the alcohol out of our cars and started them on gasoline to get it into the system if we weren't going to be racing the following weekend.

 

[Ncostello]

On the subject of small town and local stations... I have one here which is independently owned. They own two stations in town and own their own tanker trucks. They pickup fuel at the Robinson IL Marathon Refinery. Now from what I understand from some friends who work there... trucks of all brands line up to fill with diesel. And furthermore, this small local company is rumored to get the cheap stuff, or the bottom of the barrel type diesel because its cheaper.



At the same time, their price sign out front shows the price for "Premium Diesel" $1. 49. Thats all they have coming out of three diesel pumps. All the pumps have big decals on the front of them showing its "Premium Diesel". Has all the stuff on there about higher cetane, lower smoke, controls algae, improved anti-gelling properties.



If the "rumors" are true, and everyone I've talked to is right about them having plain ole #2... and the crap stuff at that... how can they get away with advertising "Premium"?? I have no idea if what they sell is high or low quality. Just curious if I could ask them to prove to me what makes their diesel better than down the road. Not just some decal. Someone from out of the area could decide to buy there because it shows premium while the others in town just say "diesel" out front. They'd be getting ripped paying the higher price for nothing.

 

[Champane Flight]

All

All the trucks that pull out of that refinery are getting the same fuel, pulled on same tank, same day, same everything. There is no such thing as "bottom of the barrel", "cheap fuel", or "seconds", when it comes to fuel. A jobber may drive an extra 200 miles for fuel two or three cents cheaper, this fuel will most likely be the same quality as the other higher priced fuel, just marked down by marketing dept of said company.



Premium and regular diesel only have one thing different, the additive package. If they are loading a premium diesel from the rack at Marathon, they are getting a anti-gell(although not this time of year), anti-fugal, cetane booster, ect, injected to the load they are pulling. The only way to check this is to obtain a copy of the Bill Of Lading their truck got when loading product at the terminal. It would state what product "premium diesel, "off road dyed", "premium off road", ect, how many gallons was loaded, what time, how much additive was injected, and where/who it was loaded for. The other way would be a detailed analysis of the fuel itself, not possible for most terminals, and only available from higher level labs.



In short, you could ask to see the BOL from the last load delivered to this station. Most likely they will tell you to take a flying leap, but if you get tight with one of their drivers they can tell you the real scoop. Good luck.

 

[Ncostello]

It would be no problem to talk with a driver. They deliver thousands of gallons of diesel to the company I work for. But its all off road stuff for heavy equipment.



The owner of this oil company is really a nice guy and I'm sure he would show me if I explain why I'm asking. At least I'll know what to look for on the tickets.