Fuel boycots don't work?

[Gary - K7GLD]

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/9fef5f14-23cb-11da-b56b-00000e2511c8.html



THIS paragraph was most interesting - but don't expect to see it make headlines in this country:



"Dominique de Villepin, the French prime minister, is expected on Tuesday to announce measures to help commuters and workers cope with high fuel prices. French road hauliers lifted their blockades of wholesale petrol depots after Dominique Perben, transport minister, promised to reduce TIP, the tax on oil. "

 

[fox]

Some sites say to not buy gas/diesel on a given day. This won't change much because we will buy more on monday.

The only thing that will have an impact is to buy less, all year.

We, as Americans, don't want to change our habits.

I think these prices are going to get some changes.

I already have employees missing work to save gas.

Me, I ride my Harley when ever posible, to save. I have reduced many miles/trips are combined.

 

[BILLYGEE]

Only Way This Will Work

The only way this would have an impact is if everyone in the country would get on board and boycott one major oil company(Exxon-Mobil, Shell, BP,etc. ) and buy their fuel at other places... You would definitely get somebody's attention.

It is so hard to get the word around and get compliance... Farmers are a perfect example of people working their ***** off and getting little or nothing for it... If they would have gotten organized and held out for good prices for their products we wouldn't be complaining about the cost of fuel...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Obviously, the boycott/blockage *DID* work in France - and also did a couple of years back under similar conditions.



The major truckers in THIS country have the power to influence "corporate thinking" as well - but have no incentive as long as they can simply pass their price increases on the their customers. That way, WE get to pay THEIR increased fuel costs, and OURS as well! Added to that is the fact that these price increases are driving all the small truckers out of business, and eliminating competition for the remaining big guys...



It would seem the only guys with any real power, would be a substantial group of smaller independents, with nothing to lose, who follow the lead of truckers in France...

 

[Van Blom]

Maybe we need a prime minister :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[ezcurra]

I am boycotting the oil companies. I am retiring my 95 Cherokee (20MPG) from my 100 mile daily commute and going with a 91 Honda Civic Hatchback (45MPG). The oil companies are losing 56% of my bussiness :-laf

 

[klenger]

So, lets say that the whole country boycotts Mobil, for instance. Let's assume that the boycott was sucessful and Mobil drops the price of fuel to $2. 00 / gallon and everyone else is still at $3. 00 / gallon. OK, now we have determined that the boycott worked, but can't resist the cheap fuel so now everyone buys from Mobil and the price goes right back to $3. 00. Of course, this would never happen because no one would wait for the price to drop to $2. 00 before "cheating". Besides buying less fuel overall, about the only other thing that you can do is to always buy from the cheapest station in town to discourage higher prices.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

In France, they didn't "boycott" a single brand or station - the truckers BLOCKADED refineries and as many stations as possible. They essentially shut down the country, or significantly slowed it to the point it was no longer "business as usual" on a grand scale.



Amazingly, it was enough for the powers that be to "magically" come up with a meaningful method to reduce fuel costs - for the SECOND time over the last few years in Europe.



Can it happen here - can the politicians and fat cat oil companies be made to feel the same pain in THEIR bank acounts as the rest of us - and be motivated to DO something about it?



You gotta be brain dead to actually believe our fuel prices are REALLY justified at current levels!

 

[DSpencer]

Obviously, the boycott/blockage *DID* work in France - and also did a couple of years back under similar conditions.



The major truckers in THIS country have the power to influence "corporate thinking" as well - but have no incentive as long as they can simply pass their price increases on the their customers. That way, WE get to pay THEIR increased fuel costs, and OURS as well! Added to that is the fact that these price increases are driving all the small truckers out of business, and eliminating competition for the remaining big guys...



It would seem the only guys with any real power, would be a substantial group of smaller independents, with nothing to lose, who follow the lead of truckers in France...

How do you make that analogy Gary. The example you gave showed the government was going to advise the public on how to cope with higher fuel prices. The boycott by the truckers seems to have been terminated because the government promised to lower the TOF(tax on fuel). The money shortfall from the lowering of taxes would have to be made up somewhere else. The truckers only appeared to win not having them be the ones having to pay for the benefit the tax would fund.

I don't know how trucking companies or individuals have much power to influence the price they pay for fuel. The profits of the oil companies after paying for crude and refining as well as transport is probably measured in pennies. I think you forgot that the price for crude has more than doubled over the last two years. They just sell alot of product plus a penny multiplied by billions equals high profit. I think to make even a ten percent price drop in fuel prices you would have to find a way they can lower their oil purchase price or reduce their other costs. Same with any other business. You can only squeeze a turnip so much.



As always, the law of supply and demand will sort this all out. If a significant drop in product shipped happens, the companies using this service will pony up and pay more for the shipping. These costs will be passed along to you and me. Blaming the Mobils and Texacos or trying to make them lower prices significantly ain't gonna happen..... except by supply and demand.

 

[BHanna]

Competition reduces prices. Put an oil company out of business and you'll just reduce competition. All these different gas (and diesel) formulas are making the prices higher here. We need to keep the waiver on those going so we can increase competition and bring the prices down more.

 

[rbattelle]

I'm afraid I just can't see why people feel they are somehow "entitled" to cheaper fuel.



Inevitably, whenever someone says what I just said, someone else spouts off about "record oil company profits", as if oil companies don't deserve to make as much profit as they choose. Well guess what, THERE'S RECORD DEMAND FOR THEIR PRODUCT! Since we live in a free market economy, supply and demand are directly linked to price. If I'm selling something, I'm going to try to maximize my profits by setting the price at the highest possible level I think the market will bear. If I think I could get $1. 2 million for my truck, you're darn right that's what I'm going to sell it for.



Ironic that we preach the benefits of free market then complain when someone actually makes money from it. A boycott would work; if every person in the country cut their demand 50%, a corresponding drop in fuel price would be unavoidable. But rather than cutting their demand, we're buying fuel at record rates despite price hikes.



Imagine you're an oil company and the more you charge for your product the more product you sell. It really is a beautiful thing from a business perspective. I wish I were an oil man right now. I refuse to condemn oil companies for this.



-Ryan

Disclaimer - I'm not trying to insult anyone and the above is pure opinion. I hold no ill will toward any person or group of people. I'm just spouting off my opinion, nothing more.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

NO, we're not necessarily "entitled to cheaper fuel" - and yes, free enterprise, capitalistic business and free market CAN be great and wonderful things - as long as they are not used the same way as a gun in the hands of a mugger!



We've all heard the description of the "Golden rule" as being "the one WITH the gold, RULES!" - equally true, is the one with the MONOPOLY rules!



We may not be "entitled" to cheap fuel - but we certainly don't "deserve" to be legally gouged, in the name of "free enterprise", either!



SHOULD fuel prices be increasing, considering world events? Sure, probably - but SHOULD a group of stations, seeing an oncoming expected disaster IMMEDIATELY raise prices on the fuel they already have stored in their tanks, bought at the previous lower price?



Should stations, seeing surrounding competitors shutting down as they run out of fuel, immediatedly DOUBLE the price of THEIR remaining fuel, since they now have a monopoly?



Should stations RAISE the prices on their fuel in ADVANCE of expected catastrophies, and BEFORE any related production increases have occurred - but THEN, only slowly and gradualy return prices to previous lows over weeks - even though sometimes the "catastrophy" never actually occurred?



After all, this IS a "free enterprise", capitalistic society...



These examples most of which we have all seen in our own areas, are only the TIP of the iceberg - and I have NO doubt similar nasty examples occur right on up the production and corporate chain.



Do we simply accept those examples as a rightful and necessary component of "free enterprise" and a "capitalistic society"? Or at the hands of a monopolized industry?



Ever see the movie "Tucker", or read about the lengths established monopolies will go to in order to retain their exclusive domination of a product or resource - do any here REALLY think some upstart refiners/oil producers are likely to show up on the scene to challenge the ones now in control?



OR, do we call what is going on what it really IS, GREED and legalized corporate mugging? There's something seriously WRONG here in the way our country is handling energy development, processing and distribution - and ultimate cost to the consumer. The cost of fuels in THIS country has FAR outpaced increases occurring in others - why is that, seeing as how many of those other countries get their crude oil from the same sources WE do?



Don't believe it? Click on this pointer:



http://www.iru.org/Services/fuel/Welcome.E.html



And then click on various foreign countries to see a graph of THEIR fuel price increases over the past few years as compared to ours in this country!



Should todays fuel be higher in cost that 5 years ago? Probably - but NOT at the runaway and uncontrolled levels we are seeing - and some quite happily accept - in todays domestic market!

 

[rbattelle]

I'm sorry, I just can't condemn the oil companies for making money no matter how much they make. It's all legally within their right to sell their product for anything they want. I hate paying it, but I love freedom and would prefer the industry remain unregulated.



Regulation smells too much like communism to me. Rather, I'm 100% in favor of the public taking action to reduce prices by choosing with whom they do business.



Apart from the legal aspects, however, are the ethical issues. I think what Gary's getting at are the ethics of the whole thing.



-Ryan

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Apart from the legal aspects, however, are the ethical issues. I think what Gary's getting at are the ethics of the whole thing. "



You got it, exactly!



Free enterprise, and capitalism without ethics or conscience, can too easily become legalized robbery!

 

[SHobbs]

I find it funny that everyone thinks we are in a country that supports free enterprise and capitalism. Actually we are heading in the direction of fascism. Simply put fascism is where large companies run the government. Look at the insurance industry, prescription drug makers. oil companies and health care. When was the last time congress made a decision that helped the little guy? Decisions made in congress always help the big business community not the tax payers. I have to agree with George Carlin when he stated " This illegal facist president and his government".

Whatever happened to a government for the people by the people? The time will come when the people of this nation will finally say enough is enough, hopefully and put an end to this. As for me and my opinion the government of the US is the largest crime organization in the world. I love my country don't get me wrong but things need to change.

 

[BrianJ]

Should stations, seeing surrounding competitors shutting down as they run out of fuel, immediatedly DOUBLE the price of THEIR remaining fuel, since they now have a monopoly?

This is such a heated topic and opinions are strong on both sides, however, it really depends on how you choose to look at it. Stations have owners to which it is their business and livelihood, they have families to feed and employees to pay, who also have families to feed. If there is a risk of running out of their chosen 'product' and face the risk of shutting down or not having enough product to sell, I can certainly see trying to protect their business and livelihood by making money where they can. Yes, there is a point where ethics may come in to play, but anyone who runs a business, be it a sole proprietorship or corporation, has to protect the assets of that business as best as possible. I can't say that I PERSONALLY blame a station for increasing prices if they are going to face a shortage.



You see it in every line of business, from contractors when demand is high to parts suppliers when supply is low, i. e. the quadruple prices you can expect to pay on parts for the NV5600 now with that whole scenario.



As much as I would like to be paying lower fuel bills, not one party is to fault for the increases we have today. If you want to boycott companies to lower prices, maybe you should start with Walmart. 10% of our national deficit is Walmart alone thanks to all of the business WE American consumers spend on their foreign (mostly Chinese) products. We ourselves are contributing to the exploding market in China and demand for FUEL, also increasing our fuel prices.

 

[RustyJC]

I have to agree with George Carlin when he stated " This illegal facist president and his government".

Whether I agree or disagree with this (or any other) president, I don't believe this type of flame throwing needs to be part of America's political process.



Rusty

 

[BILLYGEE]

Somebody's gotta do somethun...

What I don't understand is why we constantly IGNORE this dependency on foreign oil and now it's really got us by the genetalia... I'm no economist but this high cost of fuel is going to catch up with us and cause inflation and other problems, the only ones that benefit by this are Government(the taxation system in place breeds this or they can't survive) and Big Money Interests. And it all comes out of the little guys pockets.



And the sad thing is that if somebody promoted a better fuel that got us away from dependency on foreign oil one of two things would happen... either the government would curtail it with all kinds of restrictions and whatnot or the big money oil companies would buy it and not promote it unless it made bigger profits than oil or both would happen.



They say politics makes for strange bedfellows, especially when big money interests hop in bed with them.

 

[BrianJ]

What I don't understand is why we constantly IGNORE this dependency on foreign oil and now it's really got us by the genetalia...

The bigger impact on the current rise in GASOLINE and DIESEL prices is refining capacity in the US, which took a 25% hit during and after Katrina.



Edit:

According to another post on here (VW Demand) quoting the engergy department in a Rueters article, we lost 10% of refining capacity to Katrina. It still holds true that refining capacity is a large part of the current pricing in the US, along with many other factors.

 

[Van Blom]

GIT'EM SHobbs!! I'll watch your back