Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Fuel Filter woes

[Davison]

Changing my fuel filter - Removed the old one, inserted new. I left the drain cock open this time figuring that as the fuel came in, the air would be pushed out... ... Result? Had my truck towed to Glenn Thomas Dodge because I couldn't get the filter to fill with fuel.



The dealer claimed it had "lost its prime" and they 'had' to use a computer to get it working again.



They also put in a couple cans of some German fuel additive at around $18 a piece without ever asking if I wanted it!



They wouldn't tell me what I did wrong. Any thoughts? I think the drain cock open must be bad, cause I've changed the filter before the other way with no problems.



Thanks!



Rich:

 

[Pit Bull]

Thats interesting, the reason I bought some new fuel filters from Genos was that I found out that when my dealer changed my filter all they did was unscrew the top of the housing and pull out the old filter and pop in the new filter. They never drained the housing. So I never lost prime and I never new I had a bad lift pump (it was dead at 40K miles when I checked it with Briar's guage). I figured I would start doing this myself at the next Fuel filter change and printed off the instructions for changing the Fuel filter on a 2000 CTD from Fritz site. I am interested in hearing the responses to this thread. I have several times thrown the lever on the fuel filter housing and drained some diesel from the filter housing with no ill effect. My water in fuel light has never gone on, I just did this because I thought it would be a good idea. I have recently purchased the service manual for my truck, but I don't want to go through all of the steps it details for getting air out of the fuel system. I would reather keep the air out to begin with.

 

[HC]

Your guess is correct - open drain cock, not good.



Since the drain cock's purpose is to drain water and other crud from the bottom of the bowl, leaving it open wouldn't do anything to get air out - even with your lift pump pushing fuel into the canister, you'd still have a huge trapped air pocket, and the new fuel going in would squirt out the open drain at the bottom. You just got enough air into the high pressure portions of the system that normal "bumping" couldn't do the trick and save you - they probably had to do the full procedure, cracking open one or more injector lines, etc.



If you drain the bowl, you need to close the drain, then bump the lift pump by turning your key on and off multiple times. After each bump, bleed off air at the Schrader valve that is on the injector pump, downstream of the filter, until it is squirting fuel instead of bubbles. You'll be able to tell the difference - could take 3 to 5 or more "bumps" to refill the fuel bowl. Once you're getting a squirt of fuel instead of hissing/bubbling air, it's time to start the engine on the next bump.



Why the computer? I can't answer that one. Why wouldn't they tell you? Also an interesting question. Could be the guy you were talking to didn't know either and wouldn't admit it; or, maybe they figured keeping you in the dark would bring you back to their shop for a $75 fuel filter change the next time. Don't do it - get back on that horse and ride, next time you'll beat it!

 

[Mundgyver]

Davison,



Just change out the filter without the drain being opened. If your worried about water, when you have the filter out and before you install the new one, just take a flash light and look down in fuel filter bowl. If you have water in the bottom, it will appear as a clear globule. You will be able to see it. All you do then is put your new filter in and start the truck. While at an idle, just crack open the drain. This will push out the water with some fuel. If you choose this method though you might want to get another piece of tubing and extend the drain line down so you don't get a mess all over the lower parts of the truck. I run aditive about once a month and have never seen any water in my system. I'm at 65,000+ now.

 

[lsenus]

How about keeping 5 gals of diesel around in a diesel can, and then refilling the bowl when installing the new filter? It seems to me that this would eliminate the loss of prime, and allow you to clean the bowl.

 

[K_Arts]

Originally posted by Mundgyver

Just change out the filter without the drain being opened. If your worried about water, when you have the filter out and before you install the new one, just take a flash light and look down in fuel filter bowl. If you have water in the bottom, it will appear as a clear globule. You will be able to see it. All you do then is put your new filter in and start the truck.

I've been using this method for both of my trucks and have't ran into a problem yet. I've only had to drain the fuel once.



Kev

 

[BV]

Filter change

If the filter housing would not fill then it points to a lift pump problem which is suppose to be self priming. I'm not sure how having the drain open could effect this but you would definetly want it closed since it is at the bottom of the can and would dump the fuel as fast as it enters.



I always drain the housing so I can clean the sediment out of the bottom and not lost prime. Personally I wouldn't put unfiltered diesel into the housing like one suggestion - too big a risk of pumping dirt into the expensive Bosch pump.



If you want to fill the housing, take the test port valve (or plug like my 99) out and fill it using a funnel - Make sure you fill from the inlet side.

 

[exfuzz01]

fuel filter change

Just took my truck to the dealer for routine service. . I asked about changing the fuel filter and the cost..... $99. 00 !!!! I think my jaw dropped a little...



How hard is it to change by yourself and can you do it without buying a manual for the truck?. What is the cost of a filter ?



Thanks for any info.













2001 Q/C. . A/T, stock except for pillar guages, Line X liner and Smitty nerf bars. (soon to go to DTT for transmission upgrade)

 

[A. Brown]

fuel filters are very easy to change, remember to fill the reservoir with fresh diesel and you should never have a problem with air in the system

 

[TomGolden]

The fleetguard FS19579 is around $13 each, both from www.genosgarage.com and from Cummins directly. I just bought 6 of them from Cummins West yesterday.



One word of warning: if your fuel filter cannister has the 1/2" square hole in the lid handle, do NOT just stick a socket extension in there and try to unscrew the lid! You will break it!!! Get a socket, 1 1/8" is I believe the proper size, and use that to safely unscrew the lid.



Whole process takes about 10 minutes. Also remember to save the rubber O-ring from the old filter, as I recall someone recently posted the filters Geno's garage is currently selling are being shipped without O-rings. The filters I got from Cummins yesterday do still come with new O-rings. Lastly, before you install the O-ring on the cannister lid, lube it thoroughly with either diesel or engine oil.



Tom

 

[K_Arts]

Originally posted by TomGolden

One word of warning: if your fuel filter cannister has the 1/2" square hole in the lid handle, do NOT just stick a socket extension in there and try to unscrew the lid! You will break it!!! Get a socket, 1 1/8" is I believe the proper size, and use that to safely unscrew the lid.

I don't use a socket extension... I just place the ratchet in the lid and turn. I haven't broken a lid yet... thanks goodness. I think the whole scenario just depends on how careful the person is.



Kev

 

[24V-DSL]

exfuzz01

You don't need a manual to do this. It's not hard at all. I pay $10. 23 each for Fleetguard FS 19579 filters at a big rig shop. Change at 10K intervals. I do have a 1 1/8" socket, like Tom recommends.

 

[Bob Wagner]

exfuzz its simple to do. I will be going Fife this Friday and Tacoma on the 18th if you need a hand

 

[MWilleford]

My fuel filter experience... with bad lift pump:

I have changed the filter 3 times by completely removing/cleaning the bowl (wiping out water/dirt etc). Install new element dry on the engine, cracking the fuel line to the VP44 pump and cycling the lift pump to bleed all the air out. Engine started with out even a miss the first 3 changes.

The last time..... could not get the filter to prime or engine to start. Lift pump shot. ... Had to prime system to enable truck to start to get to the dealer ship:

1) Blew into fuel tank with the fuel line cracked at the VP44 until no air bubbles were present (still no start).

2) cracked injector line, blew into tank and cranked and cranked engine... Finally started!!. Drove a couple miles to the dealer--confirmed bad lift pump.

So I found out you can still prime and run the engine with a Bad lift pump. The funny thing about the lift pump failure is that it would not even push any fuel, let alone build pressure. I had checked lift pump pressure a few weeks prior and is was perfect!?

 

[fj40charles]

I think this is yet another example why you need to have a fuel pressure gauge. You will know if you lift pump is on the fritz or not. Not worth risking losing a VP44 due to a bad lift pump...



IMHO. .



Charles

 

[MWilleford]

I can't agree more fj40charles.

If I had not changed my fuel filter and found the dead lift pump... ... I just hope all is OK.

:{

The FP gauge is constantly staring at me now! Dodge should install a Idiot light or something to alert low fuel pressure. How many VP44's could have been saved!? $$

 

[rspinks]

fuel filter #'s

I just bought an FS1268 fuel filter from the local Cummins shop, is this the same filter as the FS19579? If not what are the differences and will it still work?

 

[Pit Bull]

This is what you need to do to change the filter

24 Valve Fuel Filter Change

2000-2001 ISB Ram Notes from the mail lists





Tools needed:



1 1/8" six point socket.

socket extension

ratchet wrench

catch bucket

See the parts list for 00-01 Diesel fuel filter number



See TSB 14-02-00 for cover removal cautions, and TSB 14-03-00 for details about cleaning the WIF sensor.



Place a bucket under the water/fuel drain hose that drops from the filter housing. Note: An extension tube slipped onto the end of the factory hose will help direct the drained fuel into the catch container with less mess. Without an extension, fuel will puddle on the 4X4 front axle and leave a trail when you drive away the first time.



DO NOT turn the cap using a socket wrench extension in the square hole in the cover (early models).

Use a 1-1/8 " six point socket on the fuel filter housing cap's hex casting to loosen the cap.

When the cover starts to spin freely, open the water drain valve by lifting the drain lever. Leave the drain open and your fuel-catcher in place.



Have a big zip lock or plastic bag ready for the filter and the filter housing lid into so you don't spill/drip fuel all over the engine.



Gently pull the filter housing lid up. It has the filter attached to it via snap clips on the underside of the lid. When the fuel filter is almost out of the housing, procede slowly and gently wiggle the top assembly until te filter pops out. If you will pull to quickly, the filter will pop out and spill fuel.



When you pull the filter completely free of the housing the seal will be broken and a lot more fuel will dump out of the filter itself. If you successfully pull the filter straight up, this fuel will dump harmlessly into the housing, through the drain and into your catch-container.



Use the bag to transport the filter and cap out of the engine bay.

Use a clean, lint free cloth to wipe the inside of the housing. Clean the WIF probes inside the canister housing as instructed in TSB 14-03-00.

Turn the whole thing upside down and you will see how the filter is held in place on the lid. Pry out the old one and pop in the new one, making sure to replace the big o-ring on the filter housing lid. Lubricate the o-ring with fuel or oil.

Close the drain and fill the filter housing with diesel fuel leaving enough room to get the new filter in without overflowing. (NOTE: I put mine in dry and bumped the starter seveal times to prime the system) Thread the lid and filter back into the housing. Proceed slowly and do not use a wrench, it is easy to cross thread the plastic lid.



Torque the lid with the socket and torque wrench to no moer than 25 ft-lbs (Cummins says hand tighten).



Turn the key to the run position. Bump the starter for a millisecond and let the key stay in the run position as if you had actually started the engine. You will hear the lift pump cycling for about thirty seconds, which will circulate fuel and push any air in the system back to the tank. Bump the starter several times, allowing the pump to cycle each time, then attempt start the engine.



If the engine starts but then dies, bump the starter several more times and allow the fuel pump to run until it stops each time. After several cycles, attempt to start the engine. Repeat the process until the canister is full and the engine starts and runs. With a dry canister, I cycled the pump three times, then started the engine. It promptly died and took seven cycles of the starter and fuel pump before it restarted. If the engine still will not start, try several cycles of cranking the engine for 10 seconds and allowing the pump to run after each crank attempt. As a last resort, bleeding the fuel lines may be necessary. Begin at the filter and continue along the fuel line to the injector pump until all air is purged. Torque the banjo bolt to 18 ft-lbs.



Filter Information from Cummins:



A new Raycor fuel filter element must be used with the Chrysler ISB application. Use the following chart to determine the correct fuel filter. The new 2 micron filter must be used on Chrysler ISB applications and is backwards compatible with pre-ISB Chrysler engines.

 

[Davison]

Thanks for all the input! Such a mundane task that can get complicated in a hurry..... Love the TDR!



I started thinking about the 'additive' that they sold me without asking: wonder if the tech didn't use that to prime the filter and then bleed it? If so, that's expensive fuel.



I was also wondering if I used a clean, dry pint or liter sized H20 bottle to fill with clean diesel, wouldn't that be good to use to fill the filter bowl? Does the fuel enter to the outside of the filter then get sucked out the center? In that case after cleaning up, if I carefully poured the fuel to the outside of the filter, would I be minimizing any unfiltered fuel going to the engine????



I guess I'm going to have to dig out the manuals and learn where the Schrader valve is and all the other great pieces of advice that have been given.



Engine is running well, although since the 'event' on rare occasion it will "burp" when idling! Just skips a beat and goes on. Only once mind you. Weird... ...

 

[hammersley]

EXFUZ01

Great advice here - honestly it takes longer to get the hood open and the tools assembled than it does to change the filter on your rig - not so for the 12 valve guys, now there's a hobby. You should use the 1 1/8" socket - which as you would suspect is not contained in any NORMAL socket set - meaning that you must purchase one separately. Keep it and a 1/2" drive and extensions under your seat along with an EXTRA FILTER. After you do it once - you can have the old one off and the new one in place in under 5 min. My youngest son is a manufacturing engineer for Freightliner, and their plant is adjacent to Cummins Northwest here in Portland at Swan Island so it's very convenient for him to get me the Cummins filters. Learn to change and you must Carry a spare - Carry a spare - CARRY A SPARE. I learned about that in eastern Montane last year when I was going to the old ferry crossing on the Missouri breaks - man what a drive - great stuff, and had a filter plug up - must'a been that tank of fuel I stole from the road grader - ONLY KIDDING. But I did get a load of something, changed the filter and it ran great afterwards. Only point I would make, is look carefully at the filter - when you take it off - to be sure you don't try and install upside down, or be confused as to which way it goes. Also, the top has some "clips" that keep the filter attached to the CAP. These are molded into the top, and you simply use a small screwdriver to pry several of them loose, and pull the old filter off... ... .

I might add that once you loosen the filter - grab the black cap and pull gently STRAIGNT UP. You can't break anything, but it comes off easier if you pull straight up. Since you haven't done this before - when you first start to pull, you may think it's not moving - just pull a little harder - NOT THAT HARD - and be carefull that you don't get her moving to fast, as you can spill fuel.

Take Bob W up on his advice about help.



BTW - DON"T use the EXTRA FILTER you keep under your seat for changing - PRETEND it doesn't exist until you really need it. Hopefully you'll never need it - but as Murphy lurks about - as soon as you use the spare - you'll forget about replacing it and guess what will happen?