Fuel Pressure gauges on 3Gs

[rashwor]

1) Anybody running fuel pressure gauges on the 3Gs to monitor how your lift pumps are doing?



2) What does DC say the pressure should be, or they using a volume measure as they are on the 2G 24 valves?



3) Any failures of 3G lift pumps reported?



Just curious.

 

[rashwor]

TTT

Nobody???

 

[PGoble]

I am running a DiPricol 30psi Fuel pressure gauge with an isolator. I have installed a DD Fuel Pusher Pump because of the modifications to the truck. Fuel pressure is 14psi at idle, and will pull down to 5 psi or so at wide open throttle.

Peter

 

[Prairie Dog]

I've been following the 3rd gen forum since the beginning and I don't remember seeing anything about a failed lift pump. It looks like they've got it fixed for good now.

 

[KLockliear]

I have not seen one fail, but the pressures can be low. I had one customer who put on a box (which brought him to only 350hp or so) and already reported a low of +2psi at WOT. Anything less than 6psi on a 03-04 needs to be addressed.

 

[krabman]

I was able to pull vacuum with just the EZ. I am not the only one who has done so, one fellow actually stalled his truck out on the freeway when he was checking out his top end. He was at zero pressure and only an EZ for him as well. I have no idea if this causes any damage to the cp3 or not. I do know I am my own warranty station and I have no desire to get that bill. I would get some gauges in even for mild mods.

 

[robobx]

without guages would there be any symptoms of a bad lift pump? a little harder starting? ANYTHING?

 

[rbattelle]

Page 14-76 of the service manual states:



"With the engine running, the pump has a 100% duty-cycle with a minimum pressure of 11. 5 psi"



But I have heard others on this forum say that this engine is available in applications without any lift pump at all, and the injection pump is fully capableof drawing fuel from the tank without one.

 

[RSnaith]

Originally posted by rbattelle

Page 14-76 of the service manual states:

But I have heard others on this forum say that this engine is available in applications without any lift pump at all, and the injection pump is fully capableof drawing fuel from the tank without one.

But only in lower HP applications. The CP3 doesn't have a lift pump in the DMax, however they also do not use a restrictive fuel filter canister, so fuel transfer chores are easier.



As an additional note, we were talking to one of our Dodge dealers, and they have just now started to see lift pump failures. They've had 3 in the past couple weeks, all on early 03's. We didn't get a chance to talk to them for very long, but they hadn't looked at the pumps to see what was failing on them.

 

[Steve M]

Rod,

Fill us in. What Dodge dealership is it that's had three LP failures in the past two weeks? Where are you located. Where is Wildcat Diesel Performance located. Are these lift pump failures showing up just as a new gadget is about to hit the market to fix this new epidemic?

I almost forgot to ask... Are you saying the D-Max doesn't have a fuel filter?

 

[RSnaith]

Originally posted by Steve M

1) What Dodge dealership is it that's had three LP failures in the past two weeks?

2) Where are you located. Where is Wildcat Diesel Performance located.

3) Are these lift pump failures showing up just as a new gadget is about to hit the market to fix this new epidemic?

4) I almost forgot to ask... Are you saying the D-Max doesn't have a fuel filter?

1) A dealership in mideast Alberta that we do alot of business with. I'm not going to post the name, as the last thing they need are a pile of calls asking about the failures. I haven't contacted any other dealerships that we deal with to see if they're starting to see failures or not. As I said in the initial post, we just learned of it a couple days ago, and haven't done a thorough job of research. For all we know, its simply a bad run of pumps or something equally silly.



2) I'm in Nipawin, SK. Our local dealer hasn't started seeing any failures though, and our area is especially prone to lift pump failures. The 2nd gen stuff would burn through a lift pump every 30K.



3) I'm not sure what you mean by this? We've been working on fuel systems for these trucks, and have maintained since the fall of 02 that if you plan on using more than an Edge EZ with them, that the lift pump would have to be replaced or supplemented in some way. In my area, if you use an Edge EZ in the 80 HP setting, the factory lift cannot provide enough fuel and during a hard WOT run, the CP3 will starve itself of fuel.



4) The DMax does, of course, use a filter however its not as fine as the 5 microns that the Cummins uses. I've actually never been able to get a straight up answer from anyone, although 50 microns was a common answer. I haven't researched this anywhere near enough to say yeah or neigh.

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Well I just ran 600 miles towing and rest my X-Monitor before I started. at the end of the trip 2. 7psi was the lowest reading recorded on the trip. EZ runing on level 4.

 

[Prairie Dog]

No disrespect to anyone but sometimes dealers make comments that they seem to make up out of thin air. I don't know why they do it, maybe to look smarter, I don't know.

I believe that if there were that many failures then we would have heard first hand info from one of our members.

By the way, my truck is out of the first shipment my dealer recvd back in Oct. 02.

Remember, no flame intended.



Scotty

 

[RSnaith]

Originally posted by Prairie Dog

No disrespect to anyone but sometimes dealers make comments that they seem to make up out of thin air.

No disrespect taken, and if it had come from any other dealer, I would not have believed it, especially since I've seen nothing from own dealer. However, these guys, and the parts guy in particular are EXTREMELY stand up fellas, and can be trusted completely. If he said it happened, I'd lay down my home, truck and dog that it did. These are old-school, small town guys who count on their reputation and honor to keep business coming through the door.



But as I say, we still don't know what exactly failed on them, and it could likely end up being some stupid little thing that escaped quality control on a few trucks. Given the shear volume of trucks that the dealer sells (there will be between 50 and 100 diesel trucks on the lot at any given moment in time), and the conditions the majority of their trucks find themselves in (ranching and oilfield country), they will tend to experience a certain number of environment related failures that city dealerships will not.



Mopar, your 2. 7 PSI is about what I'd expect out of truck running in the 60 pony setting on an EZ. All my runs were done at the 80 pony setting, and with the new Bully Dog box. Just out of curiosity today, since I was on the road anyway, I did a couple WOT runs on a deserted section of highway (Saskatchewan has lots of these), I was able to drop to 0 PSI pressure, and after about 10 miles, the CP3 emptied out and the truck stuttered until pressure came back up again. The lift pump just doesn't have the legs for higher ponies. At 90 mph, I was able to run for 20 miles before feeling the start of the stutter and I backed out of it. At 85 mph, pressure come back to 2 PSI and all was good.

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by RSnaith

. At 90 mph, I was able to run for 20 miles before feeling the start of the stutter and I backed out of it. At 85 mph, pressure come back to 2 PSI and all was good.

LOL, I am guessing that you have the 3. 73 gears... ... with my 4. 10's it tops out at 90 turning 3000 RPMS. I have run a few miles on interstate at 90 keeping up with traffic but that was kinda pushin it and I backed down.



Another deciding factor in the pressure is that as rpms increase the pressure drops. Also as the rpms increase the EGT goes up. That said I don't think I could do a long enough run at high RPMs' with a load to cause pressure problems because the EGT's are climbing and I am going to the next gear already.



But if I put the Edge Comp on when it comes out things are going to change.



On a side note my stock clutch just keeps holding up and seems like it has even gotten a little better maybe, but the peddle is getting further off the floor.

 

[AndyMan]

I'm fixin to add an a-pillar 3 gauge pod and load it up. I have been vacillating between the trans temp gauge and the Fuel Pressure gauge. The other two will of course be 0-60boost, and 0-1600pyro. I will eventually be doing some heavy towing (recreational 5th wheel), but for now, I am working on balancing the power/longevity track. Mainly for the next couple of years, I will just run afe intake, ats manifold, 4"exhaust, and a box (most likely EZ)... . It SOUNDS like I should definately add the FP gauge?



I would prefer to add as much as possible that falls in the "preventitive" category before I add anything that would fall in the "performance" catagory... i. e. intake, exhaust, manifold, pusher pump.



Thoughts? Ideas? Comments? Flames?



Currently the only thing I tow is my <10klb tractor.



THANKS!

Andy