2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Fuel Tank Float - How many of us had to change it because it deteriorated?

[ILIANBG]

Hi to all.

I recently, few feeks ago, had to replace my fuel float, because the dashboard gauge would be showing empty all the time and "low fuel" light would be on ALL the time.

The fuel tank was really clean, but the fine screens on the bottom of the pick up assembly were totally cloged. From white color those had become dark gray.

The fuel float was deterioreted. It was 1/4 from its original size. The replacement I installed was exactly the same thing and I know it will not last long either. It looked as the deteriorating float had clogged up the screens not allowing sufficient amount of fuel to through.

I changed 2 OEM Carter lift pumps in less than 15000 miles, because of really erratic psi readings, and I was still getting the same results!! another Carter was replaced earlier, so those are 4 pumps including the original it came with. My pressure would drop to 0 psi at idle occasionally. My fuel filter was new, and my lift pumps were brand new from Cummins. I even thought my gauge was bad.

How many of you has replaced the float to find out your old one was deteriorated?

Why is the float for our trucks the same part # as for the gas trucks? Yes it was the same part number. I would have to dig it up and will post it.

Is the float deteriorating faster with the ULSD?

I oderered it form a Dodge dealer with the VIN number of my thruck just to make sure.

So, please chime in, let's find out if that deterioration is widespread, and how long do those float last. I changed mine at 76000 mi on the odometer.

Ilian

 

[Thomas]

. . . Why is the float for our trucks the same part # as for the gas trucks?. . .

I don't think you can purchase a float separately. It's part of P/N 4897669AB, fuel gauge sending unit.

The float is the same part number for all 34 & 35 gallon fuel tanks, gasoline or diesel, because is used for both gas and diesel tanks.

 

[Signal73]

when I did my 95's fuel lines, I noticed it was starting to fall apart

 

[ILIANBG]

Thomas, you are right, part# 4897669AB. And yes it is the same for ALL models- gas and diesel! Mine was badly deteriorated and stuck between the housing and the wire holding it, because the hole for the wire in the middle of the float got so much bigger that the float went up the wire, until got stuck at the narrowest point near the connection to the housing.

Why would they make a float, that just falls apart in the tank? That might be the reason for all those failed pums I replaced. The fine screens were pluged up with dark stuff, same color as the deteriorating float!!!

It has to be something common, and dealerships should be aware of it.

I am looking for an alternative, to replace this part that is not supposed to be there in the first place.



Ilian

 

[MLee]

I coated mine with EPOXY, wasn't eroded to bad on the corners, so why not for an experiment. On my 95 there is a narrow area where the float must go when full, so when reinstalling I had to align the float to this spot. Working good so far.

I seen on a parts web site [maybe NAPA] where they had BRASS floats, but it would have to be soldered, solid no holes for tilting, and maybe a little noisy.

Marv.

 

[DieselDoghouse]

To my knowledge our floats are made by Carter (of course) same name as on your Dad's carburetor. I've done mine twice because the pivot at the arm loosens and the wiper doesn't make reliable contact on the resistor strip. The principle (I know most know this) is resistance generated varies with arm position and is reflected on the fuel gauge (voltage varies). There is a BETTER way - using the capacitance of the fuel on a dip sensor (no moving parts). This is done on aircraft tanks. But its $$$$ and you need someone to calibrate the unit for the tank depth and what that means in terms of gallons remaining. IF somebody succeeds - no more replacing senders!!!

 

[CContreras]

I had to replace it twice on my 95.

 

[DOverton]

I had to replace mine once about three years ago. The second one has held up so far.



Dallas...

 

[JAG1]

I have two trucks, an 02 and a 1st gen. On my first gen at about 150k miles, the float wore away like it slowly dissolved in the fuel. Now I don't have a part number for the replacement but, it's about another 150 k miles later and I recently pulled the tank and this aftermarket float was put on the origonal arm about 8 yrs ago and is still good. It is a hollow plastic float rather than oem solid stuff that wore away. I think I got it from a local speed shop.

 

[DonTX]

I replaced mine at about 175k, made it 6k or so now without failing, the previous owner had just lived with it for LOTS of miles when he had it. I blindly put on a dealer item, hoping against hope that PERHAPS they had gotten tired of them failing, and improved it some. (yeah, right!)

 

[rweis]

I just put my Draw Straw in and looked at the float closely. I did not see anything special about it that could not be duplicated in brass. A brass box with a heavy brass tube solder to the brass float and the rod through that.



For that mater, it is a float that starts under the max fuel level and ends up on the surface of the fuel. Looks like a brass cylindrical float would do fine.



Bob Weis

 

[ILIANBG]

It looks like brass will be the solution, or a hollow plastic one, that will last in the diesel. I have to see what the other two brands are using as a float material. I want to change it with a good replacement.

Ilian

 

[rweis]

I am looking at Robert Manufacturing R440-2 but have to find an attachment mechanism. I think I remember seeing a chain attachment in their catalog. I also have to see if they will sell 1 unit. (Robert Manufacturing also has poly type floats of various sizes. Another size is a cylinder that could be interesting considering the limited amount of space in the tank. I think it is 1. 35" diameter and 5" long. Attachment to the OEM float arm would have to be worked out)



The float is a 2" brass. As I recall the float in our tanks is about 1 1/2" wide and about 4" long and about 3/4" thick. If someone could verify those dimensions I would appreciate it so I can decide if the 2" round brass float will work.



When I had the canister out I tried to measure the float range vs the tank level range. I think on mine the float was about 1" - 1 1/2" UNDER the tank level when full (ie submerged) because of the upper limit of travel of the float. About 1" above absolutely flat dry when at the low end of travel. With my Draw Straw cut it should suck air at the 1/2" deep level so the lower float travel is within 1/2" of sucking air.



I also had an idea about straight replacement of the OEM float with a large current production carbuerator brass float attached to where the OEM float is now. I have to get with my parts guy to see what is available.



I think there will be an alternative though that will not break apart while inside of the tank.



Bob Weis

 

[rweis]

I have an email into the Robert Manufacturing company about buying in small quanties to see even if they will consider that possibility.



Their R440-2 2" brass ball with the V202 swivel atachment and S hooks should be about what will fit and float arm easily and will keep reasonably accurate gauge level to fuel level I think. The V202 would mount where the existing OEM float is by some sort of a keeper on both sides of the S hook. The swivel would screw into the R440 2" brass ball receiving nub.



Probably would have to check the float vs tank depth and especially where the empty reading would be, but I think it seems very workable.



The products they make are for all kinds of "destructive" environments and fluids, so the float should hold up fine and certainly not sluff off ever.



I should have some sort of answer in a day or two and should have some idea of approximate cost.



Bob Weis

 

[Yo Hoot]

Does any of you know the correct part number for the 1998 12V trucks that have the 4-prong electrical connection? My buddy is tying to find the correct one but has been unsuccessful. The dealerships have not been very helpful. Truck is down.

 

[ILIANBG]

Bob Weis, thank you for your help. It is greatly appreciated. I never thought out of a carburator float for some reason. But I hope the one from Robert Manufactoring works out to be available to us.

Ilian

 

[rweis]

Well, I ordered the brass 2" float and swivel attachment from Robert Mfg. Ships today only a couple of days to get here. I think we might have a winner. Have to figuer out how to compensate the level arm to adjust for the length of the swivel, but should be doable.



I got the LAST 2" float. They did not sell enough 2" floats to continue making them. However, they said if we need them to make another production run they would. The next smallest float they make is a 3" float that is a standard stock item.



I talked to their "engineer" for a little time and he said the reason they discontinued the 2" float is by the time you have a swivel and an 8" attachment arm the float would barely float. I will take a look at how short I can make the attachment point so it will work for us.



I will not have time to get back into the tank for about 2 weeks. I think we have a winner.



Bob Weis



The float is the R440-2 (in the catalog but not on the price list), the arm is the R380 that is a 6" brass arm that comes with a swivel, and I got an extra swivel (V202) just in case. The plan is to mount the float directly to the swivel and the swivel directly to the fuel level arm to minimize weight. I hope the float can handle the weight. The arm is just in case I need to ?????



I do need ideas on how to attach the swivel to the fuel lever arm so it is permanently attached but can still be loosly attached and flexable and remain permanently attached to the place you want it attached to.



Ideas?

 

[ILIANBG]

Can you strap your new float with swivel to the existing arm of the stock float, just eliminating the OEM float? Just a permanent connection.

I'm glad you found that brass float. I will call them to find out what else is available. Thanks.

Ilian

 

[rweis]

Ilian - I have to get it here to really see how to mount it, but - I have to be really careful about the weight of the mount system as I think there is about 1. 12 oz to play with.



I am thinking that I am going to take the brass arm R380 and cut the end with the flat part and the mounting holes off with just enough to make new thread on the rod shaft with 1/4-20 SAE and screw the new threaded part into the float. Take the flat part that has 2 holes in it and cut the hole closest to the end of the flat end off so save a little weight. That part should not be more than about 1/2" long.



Take the OEM float off. On the OEM arm where the float was go 1/2 the length + 1/2" and cut it off. Take the extra 1/2" and make a loop back toward the canister at the 1/2 way arm point. Put 1 S hook on with one end in the float & one end in the loop in the OEM float arm I just made. This should position the float centered with the OEM float mechanism, add minimal weight to the float, reduce a tiny bit of weight from the arm part cut off, keep the float really close to the arm (<1/2") so minimal effect on the gauge readings. Maybe put a slight downward bend in the arm where the OEM float was so the bottom of the ball float lines up with where the OEM float was. to eliminate any gauge error from changing the float.



While I am in there I will measure and see if there is clearance for a 3" ball. The 3" ball is still in production. IF NOT enough clearance for the 3" ball then I will call Robert Mfg and see how small a production run of 2" floats they can make, assumming that the 2" float works in reality.



Bob Weis

 

[rweis]

The 2" ball came today. Did a bouyancy test with the swivel, floats fine. Should float the arm no problem. Will be a couple of weeks before I can drop the tank, but attaching it should not be a problem if the OEM float arm can be bent (I can not imagine that the arm is anything special in metal).



The 2" ball is about what the width of the OEM float is.



IF it works then we need to find out what the smallest production run can be, commit guys to the run number, and have them RUN the production run. The float was about $15 ish and that should pay for the ball and the shipping to you.



More later, think about it if you want one.



I'll do the paperwork / spreadsheet of request / addresses / phone numbers and do the shipping unless someone more central to the US wants to do it so the mail cost is a little bit less (I live in FL).



Bob Weis