Fuel

[Kingram]

I hope this is the right forum to post this under... .



I have a question for all you experts out there



We have about 6 truck stops within 15 miles of where I live. Diesel prices are the cheapest at these truck stops. Like today, fuel at the truck stops was $1. 189. The cheapest fuel (diesel) at gas stations in town was $1. 329. So, I have to buy at the truck stops. The problem is, they are not the most convient places to get in and out of for only 30 gallons of fuel. It takes more time to get in and out of these places than it does to pump the fuel. So, I called a few fuel distributors today and found the one that runs 3 of the truck stops. They will home deliver on-road (taxable) fuel for the same price they sell it at the pumps in the truck stops. I just have to invest $400 in a 550 gal tank and $100 in an old gas pump.



What do you all think of this idea? Any negatives you can think of other than the investment?



I use about 200 gallons per month, so I don't think it will get old on me. Also, they only deliver #2 fuel, no blends. So, I'll have to treak it in the winter. It rarely gets below 10 degrees here in the dead of winter (Southwest VA). Also, I have a diesel tractor I can use this in (and get the tax credit in the spring). I normally haul 50 gals at a time for it.



You comment, thoughts and suggestions are very much welcome.



Thanks!

Chris

 

[chuck3]

I think you have to ask yourself if its worth it , will you get your $500. dollars back? Two and a half months seems a long time for the fuel to be sitting there collecting moisture to me! Just my 2 cents.

 

[Steve Roseman]

Assuming the price difference remains the same, at 200 gallons a month it would take a year and a half just to pay for the tank and pump.

I guess it all depends how inconvenient it is to get fuel.

 

[Cooker]

I agree 10 weeks seems like a long time for the fuel to be sitting around. Why not a smaller fuel tank?

 

[illflem]

Check with a different supplier, many will supply the tank for free if you buy a certain amount of fuel from them, 200 ga a month would be plenty. I wouldn't worry about the fuel going bad, the diesel in my 1000 ga tank sits for 4 months every winter, never a problem. You should have a filter with water trap on the tank outlet anyways. If you have an air compressor near where you want to place the tank let me know I'll tell you how to avoid the pump. If you have room for a tank I wouldn't consider doing it any other way, I haven't waited in line for fuel in 30 years except when traveling.

 

[Kingram]

Tanks

Thanks for the comments everyone. I'm really not too worried about recouping the investment. Heck, I've spent more than that on stuff that makes my life easier.



I like the convienence plus the fact I won't have to lug that 50 gal barrel around any more to get tractor fuel. So, if it takes me a bit to pay it off, ok I suppose... .



Maybe I should be more concerned with the fuel sitting so long, but I've just seen so many other fuels set for a period of time (farm fuel, heating oil, etc. ) with no problems. I don't know. Seems illflem hasn't had any problems, which is good.



Illflem, I do have a 130 PSI, 30 gallon compressor within 10 feet of where I was planning to put the tank. I am, however, planning to bury it. Is that a problem? I thought it would be best to bury to help prevent condensation. Is this valid? I'd love any advice you can give me on plumbing it up.



Thanks again to all,



Chris

 

[MUDDY]

here, they supply the tank 300 gallon, and it is 10 cents cheaper delivered for road diesel.

 

[illflem]

Chris, Buried tanks are a no-no nowadays unless they are double walled, much more expensive. I abandoned my gasoline and diesel underground tanks before it was too late and went above ground. If they leak you are liable for the cleanup, I've seen leaks go 75 feet into the soil and bankrupt the landowner. I imagine in VA your water table isn't far down, could be a real mess. With an above ground tank on a stand you can gravity the fuel out, all you need is a locking valve, filter, hose and nozzle. I did it this way for years, the problem was it was slow and my tractor operators would wander off while the tank was filling and cause an overflow. No big deal if you aren't in a hurry and stay put. For an auto shut off nozzle you need more pressure than a tank on a stand will give you. What I did since a airline was close by was plumb the air to the tank vent on top with 1/4" flex copper tubing. This goes though a pressure regulator set at 5 psi. Also used a stop and waste type ball valve to control the air, when the valve is open you can't put the nozzle back in it's holder, when it's closed the air drains from the tank. You can set yourself up with a auto shut-off nozzle, hose, filter (recommend Goldenrod), regulator and valve for under $100, Northern Tools has everything you need, get products rated for farm duty, they are the same but don't have the expense of a ASME rating. Another plus with the air system is you can put the tank on blocks, no stand. With the air system I can put 30 gallons in my Rams in about 2 minutes. Your tank should be tilted back from the outlet with a valve on the bottom to drain any water that may collect. I have never had a water problem myself. If your supplier will deliver every two or three weeks, most will, I recommend a 300 gallon tank, cheaper and the fuel will cycle more. I use only #2 and add Howe's in the winter months. I have fuel pressure gauges in my Dodges, never had the pressure creep down with 20k between fuel filter changes. In fact the only fuel related problem I've ever had was while on the road from a Texaco station!!!

 

[Kingram]

Thanks - Good info

OK, thanks again for all the good information everyone. Muddymess, I can't talk them into a 10 cent discount. But, they will discount some if they put me on the monthly routine fill. Also, will throw in a 275 gallon tank. So, thanks for having me ask for this!!!



Illflem,



Very good information on the tank setup. Thanks for the comments on the underground tank. I think I may steer away from that myself. One last question. Your comment about the air system not needing to be on a stand... . Does that mean the outlet of the storage tank does NOT need to be above the inlet on my tractor/truck? In other words, will the air (5 psi) force the fuel out AND up at 15 gallons per minute? Or, do I still need to gravity flow it, just the air helps it out faster?



Thanks again,



Chris

 

[illflem]

Chris, the bottom of the tank only needs to be high enough for the filter to clear and remove for service, about 12-16". Two cinder blocks high will work. You will still get good flow with 5 psi. Use 1" hose, the filters and nozzles are usually 1" anyways. You may want to also protect the tank from folks running into it, 4" PVC drain pipe full of concrete works good. See if you can get a square tank or one with a flat bottom, much easier to put on blocks.

 

[JohnE]

Kingram;

Seeing as you are using the fuel for your tractor why not get the special? Same fuel ,but just an <em>extral</em> additive.



Bill (illflem) gave you the best advice for winter. Get a 1&quot; deliver system. It shouldn't give you any wax problems. If your winter temps are only 10&deg; F, I wouldn't worry about blending.



I live in Minnesota and very rarely blend. I do use plenty of cat pee to limit the wax. We heated our shop with #2 fuel from an outdoor tank. We used the full 1&quot outlet and ran the pipe through the wall and indoor for another 2 feet. that was enough to thaw the wax and drop to 3/8&quot; copper for the connection to the furnace gun.



my 2 bits;



-John