funny starting problem

[jaynes]

Here I am again! Jeez you'd think I'd run out of problems sooner or later.



Ok, when it's really cold and the engine doesn't want to start on the first try, is it normal for when a cylinder catches then lets go to kick the starter out of engagement? Cause mine cranks then lets go with a little grind sound when I let off the key. Like, you hear the starter spinning (not engaged) then when it comes to a stop there is a small grind noise. Is it possible that I have a worn spot on the ring gear, so that when it gets to that point it won't crank anymore? Because when I go to try it again, it cranks fine, it's not like it's stuck on that "bare spot" or anything. Does this happen to any of you?



jaynes

 

[JLEONARD]

funny starting problem

:-laf :-laf

Oh... not funny that way?? Sorry. Dang.

Sounds like the starter is disengaging... like you need a starter rebuild, or solenoid/relay rebuild.

Jay

 

[jaynes]

Boy you're just a hoot aren't ya? Haha, no that starter is new. Oh well, no biggie then. thanks!



jaynes

 

[prototech]

I had that problem with a new starter on a 318 in a 69' Dodge, seems like I had to get some shims and space it out a bit. but I haven't had any problems with my CTD starter yet. good luck with that!!

Proto

 

[jaynes]

Some shims and space it out a bit? I'm sorry, can you clarify, i'm not quite sure what you mean. Thanks!



Oh, and why was it doing that?



jaynes

 

[JLEONARD]

no that starter is new.

I could tell the whole story, but I won't. Just suffice it to say that new doesn't necessarily mean good.

Put a new one on a Ford I had... then I exchanged it for a new one and then it finally worked correctly.

Don't take it for granted that it is good.

Jay

 

[cerberusiam]

Like jleonard said new is not always good. It sounds like the bendix is weak and kicking out too soon. You may not have a flat spot now but if there is a grinding noise when it winds down that aint good for the big gear.



Where did you get the starter and how much did it set you back?

 

[dpuckett]

I second that motion (third? whatever) JUst because it is new dont mean it is good, esp if you got it from a chain parts store. Now, if it was rebuilt at a electrical shop, or you got it NEW, then I might think otherwise. It does sound like a starter problem. I had a similar thing happen to me last summer- just thought the battery was getting weak, then it wouldnt start one day at work. So I took the starter off, and we took the end off the body of it, and it was just powder in there; nothing ike it should have been. Had the truck pull started, and drove it homw w/o the starter on the engine. Rebuild cost about $100, here in the swamp.



Daniel

 

[jaynes]

I got it reman from Autozone. The only time it seems to kick out is when it's really cold out and the engine cranks slower. It always seems to happen at the same time: i. e. , it'll turn a couple of revolutions then kick out, with that little grind sound when it winds down. Remember this is only when it's cranking slow, i've never had this happen in warm weather. There has been a couple of time in really cold weather when it's been doing this that when I try to crank it again, I get nothing but a big "GRRIIND!" Then I get frightened and let off the key real quick, wait a second, try it again and it cranks. I don't know. Why would it just grind like that without cranking? Eventualy it will start, but this never happens in warm weather.



jaynes

 

[JLEONARD]

Jaynes

I don't know... but the bum starter I got was a "cheapo" that I was no happy to get from what yused to be a quality parts house.

The front bushing on the drive was NFG (eggshaped) from the start, but I didn't know it. It allowed the drive to load over to one side during starting and crank slow... sometimes it wouldn't budge and I had to push start it (that happened 3 times).

I took the starter out and when I shook it it sounded like a baby's rattle

The free replacement was made better... . spun the engine like I had a new battery.

I suffered for 4 months with the f'd up new one before I wised up.

Now that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!!!

Jay

 

[JLEONARD]

Jaynes

I don't know... but the bum starter I got was a "cheapo" that I was no happy to get from what used to be a quality parts house.

The front bushing on the drive was NFG (eggshaped) from the start (pun intended) , but I didn't know it. It allowed the drive to load over to one side during starting and crank slow... sometimes it wouldn't budge and I had to push start it (that happened 3 times).

I took the starter out and when I shook it it sounded like a baby's rattle

The free replacement was made better... . spun the engine like I had a new battery.

I suffered for 4 months with the f'd up new one before I wised up.

Now that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!!!

Jay

 

[cerberusiam]

Sounds like a shoddy rebuild on the starter. There is enough wear that the bendix is kicking out too soon under stress and/or not engaging correctly at times. The cold weather aggravates it by making the lube a little stickier than normal. Just be aware every time youe hear it grind it is chewing on the ring gear and wearing it down. Too much of that and it will be replacement time or you won't hold a starter in it. IMHO you are better off in the long run getting a reman from Cummins instead of the supply houses. The quality is just not what it needs to be to crank the diesel motor.

 

[jaynes]

thanks guys. I'm gonna talk to cummins when the weather gets alittle warmer and I can get under the truck (don't have a garage). I defiantly don't want to end up having to replace the ring gear. That would really suck!



jaynes

 

[dpuckett]

jaynes,

I noticed you are in Columbia. Give Privitt's a call, or stop by- they are toward the west end of the business loop, down a side street behind the Uhaul place, and tell them I sent you. They should be able to recommend a local shop to rebuild it. Ask to talk to Don if you can. His son, Doug, is alright, I guess, but I just like Don better; he seems more willing to tell you what it could be, or how this or that may work. Doug wants to get it in the shop, and have a tech look at it. They are a bit pricey, but they stand behind their work, and will fix up their mix ups, if and when they happen.



Daniel

 

[prototech]

Originally posted by jaynes





Some shims and space it out a bit? I'm sorry, can you clarify, i'm not quite sure what you mean. Thanks!



Oh, and why was it doing that?



jaynes

the starter mounted from the bottom with two bolts and the spacers went in between the starter housing and the mounting holes to space the starter gear out from the flywheel, I had to try a few different combos but I got it to work. I think the starter gear was a little out of round and kept it from engaging at certain spots. most parts houses should have the shims. I haven't looked at the starter on my truck yet but the starter on my 92' full size van mounts the same way, hope this helped a little?

Proto

 

[jaynes]

Hey Daniel, I'll give this guy a call. I was also going to call Cummins up on Rangeline, they seem to know what they're doing (for the most part). Is this guy Doug, what do they do at his shop? Everything, just about? Just curious. I'll tell him you told me to call. Thanks!



jaynes



PS: Starter did the same thing this morning, about 13 deg. This time, got worse and worse everytime I tried it; got to the point where it wouldn't even make a full revolution without kicking out and grinding.

 

[dpuckett]

Yeah, it is a general repair shop. THey have about half a dozen or so guys who seem to know their stuff, at least electrically, and anything else not diesel fuel system related. I wouldnt necessarily take the truck to his shop if you know for 99. 99% sure it is the starter (and you can obviously remove it), but he should be able to point you in the right direction. It's been too long since I lived there. I was a freshman at Mizzou in 97. One of my classmates just finished her 2nd year vet school.



Forrest at Cummins up on Rangeline is the B-man, if he is still there. He was getting people good deals on PW injectors 3 or 4 years ago. While you're up there, look on the lot of MFA's tire division, and see if they have any pickups for sale. They run Cummins dodges, and sell them at about 4yrs/ 300K mi. They seem to be clean, or the ones I've seen were. Not bad price, either. I know, blasphemy. I apologze, Pastor Bob. How many male harries will that be?



Daniel

 

[jaynes]

Male harries. Lol. Ok Puckett, so you graduated when I was a freshman. I've talked to Forrest before, he's a good guy, knows alot about these engines. He took a look at my truck one day to try and figure out why it smokes so much. I still ahven't figured that one out yet. And I'll defiantly check out the MFA lot. Thanks!



Josh