FYI on guideline adjustments....

[BushWakr - RIP]

Hi guys/gal,



There are a couple things to bring to your attention.



These relate to Forum/Site guidelines, in relation to language and "terms/phrases" used in posts.



First let me say that I've personally used these terms/methods once or twice myself so this applies to me as well as all of us.



1) Please try to refrain from using the " *** " or " $$$ " method to cloak certain language. While it is not a major issue in here, I'd still ask that you try to avoid using that tactic.

As moderators, we are given some latitude and discretion in how we guide our respective Forums. I'd like to save up my/our "discretionary credits" as it where, for any major issues. I am bound by moderator rules to alter/edit posts that are obvious sidestepping of the guidelines and or intent of the same, as well as repeated attempts at the same.



2) There is now a relatively new issue to address.

This consists of the use of the word " STEALER" instead of "DEALER".

I know, it doesn't seem like a big issue but in fairness there are some pretty decent dealers out there. It's on their behalf that this is being brought to our attention.

Again, PLEASE, try to refrain from what can be considered derogatory term, when referring to dealers. If you've had a personally bad experience, then no one will 'call you' on stating your own experience. The difference is that it relates to your experience with a particular and specific dealer.

To that end the TDR admin is likely going to add that particular term to the word censor software. Don't try to use #1 above to defeat item 2 ..... I bet you thought I'd miss that didn't you...



Let me say openly that I have tried to refrain from any editing, deleting, closing thread(s) etc. You in turn, have given me very little need to even consider those actions, and for that, I thank each and every one of you, personally. !!



If any of you guys have an issue, I insist you let me know straight away. I do not want anything to get in the way of this Forum and it's friendly, non-combative nature. Don't hesitate to send me a PM if you feel something needs looking at, or help with. Last, you have my personal word that any such notice/PM/correspondence will remain 100% totally private. No exceptions, unless I need to take it to TDRadmin.



In return, I'll promise to continue to refrain from excessive anal rule enforcement.



3) It is likely that the moderators are going to be allowed a BIT more free rein when it comes to posting their own personal thoughts/opinions/ideas.

It is absolutely necessary that, should we do so, particularly in relation to a "hot topic", we must qualify our response/post(s) with a disclaimer of some sort.

The reason for this is simple... members, in particular new members, might well and reasonably assume that we are authorities on topics, or that we may have some "special inside knowledge". This is not always the case, but it can be seen as such.

The disclaimer will reflect that a moderators post will be his/her own personal opinion, and NOT that of the TDR, nor an endorsement of or by TDR. So, if you see such disclaimers you'll understand the reason for it. If a moderator is "in the thick or things" on a topic, we can ask another mod to step in and assure equitable treatment of participants.



I am personally convinced that this will allow everyone to be assured that they can speak their opinons, including mods.





Again, thanks for all of your support over the last few months.



Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming... .



Best regards, Bob.

 

[Midnite]

Originally posted by BushWakr





2) There is now a relatively new issue to address.

This consists of the use of the word " STEALER" instead of "DEALER".

(snip)

To that end the TDR admin is likely going to add that particular term to the word censor software.

Bob, I *really* *really* hope that won't happen. If this is not already set in stone, I would very strongly recommend that moderators just handle #2 on a case by case basis, with the understanding that indiscriminant use of the term "stealer" is highly discouraged.



In my opinion, what obligates TDR to include run of the mill cuss/swear words in the word filters is that they tend to be generally offensive to everyone. This is not the case with "stealer"--it appears to only be offensive to dealers (and understandably so, I suppose).



If I were an employee or owner of a dealership and were reading a post where the author was relating a bad experience with another dealer, I would not at all object to his/her use of the term "stealer". I would understand that it was a very focused, specific use of the term, and that it was being applied solely to the dealer in question, and not take it personally. It is not the case-specific use of that term that's the problem--it's the indiscriminant use that is.



The word filters and/or manual editing by moderators should not be a knee-jerk response to every term that one particular TDR minority objects to reading, and I fully believe that the enforced filtering of "stealer" sets a disturbing precedent.



Note: After reading Robin's announcement regarding this, I edited this post to include manual editing by moderators of the term "stealer". It's effectively the same as adding the term to the word filters, and should only be done on a case by case basis.



BTW, I'm assuming this thread was intentionally not locked. If it was indeed supposed to have been locked, I apologize. In that event, I would request that this reply be allowed to remain, but would understand if it were deleted (preferably reposted as a new thread).



Mike

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Hi Mike,



Personally I have always applied the "case by case" concept werever possible. I've always felt that this was the only way to assure EQUITY, not equality, to any issues that arise.

I think that encouraging members to refrain from the term described is sensible, at least for the time being.

I state personally and publicly that if the experience someone has with a PARTICULAR dealer is negative, as you mention, then I can't take issue with that personal experience, nor expression of it.

Again, as you noted, the problem arises when it is used indiscriminately and applied to all.

I quoted a situation on another thread in TDR on this topic, which demonstrated that not all dealers are deserving of the other term.



Personally I'll do my best to balance the legitimate expression of good or bad service with my obligation to apply TDR Guidelines.

On that, you and all the 1st Gen gang, have my assurance.



One last item... ... If there is an opportunity to encourage dealers and or their employees to drop in, feel at home and take part, then perhaps we'll have one more source/supplier/service provider in our corner who is willing to step up and help us CTD owners.

That is not likely to happen if all they see is the derogatory term, which I think is often made more from a "poke fun" approach than a truly negative "shot".

So, again, if you'll try to work with me and Admin on this then you can bet your truck, that I'll do the same when it comes to your posts and any discretion that may be needed.



bob.

 

[JLEONARD]

Bob,

Well, I certainly believe that I can get my point across without using the "S" word to describe what typically appears to be overpricing, or lack of knowledge, or whatever, by a Daimler/Chrysler dealer, or any other dealer.



So I have no issue with the new rule there...



Jay

 

[Midnite]

Jay, my point was not that I can't talk about dealers without using the term "stealer"--I'm perfectly able to do that, and in fact have only used that term maybe once or twice.



My point was that word filters and/or manual editing of posts by moderators shouldn't be a knee-jerk reaction whenever a tiny minority of members complain about what others post on this site.



In addition to my 1st gen truck, there is also a Ford in my driveway. Do you think it would be a good thing if I told Robin that I was deeply offended by the use of the terms "frod", "dorf", etc. and was able to convince her to globally filter those? Personally, I think that would be absolutely ridiculous.



I have complete confidence in Bob and his judgement, but unfortunately I haven't heard anything back from Robin after I PM'd her about this.



Mike

 

[JLEONARD]

Midnite Mike,

Nothing personal really... ... .

I understand your point and sympathize with the dealers... (there I said it)

I guess my point is that we can still get our point across without using that one specific word. No matter to me, I'll just be more specific when it needs to be done if that's the way it needs to be done.

I can roll with it.



Actually I thought the term was somewhat "endearing" and not really derogatory... ...

Our company sells directly to the factories... . Ford and Daimler/Chrysler among others.

It's actually pretty funny... ironically funny that is, when I see what the cost is for the replacement part compared to what we get for the original... your looking at 5 x minimum...

What bothers me is that the dealers are not consistant... . one dealer 10 miles away might charge 2x what the other charges, and make me feel like a second class citizen to boot.

That's what dirves me to want to use the S word, as opposed to the D word.

Bob,

Is that post permissable?

Jay

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

HI Guys,



First of all let me say that the motivation for this was "soft" to begin with, in other words, there wasn't a great hew and cry...



Mike, thanks for having a bit of faith in me, I'll certainly try not to let any of you guys down.

Jay, as noted in my above post, I cannot find grounds to edit someone when they are relating a personal experience with a particular dealer. That is, I think, fair game.

It really does boil down to what Mike mentioned in his first post... . the broad generalizing or wholesale accusation(s).

Every 1st Gennner in here has been pretty even handed when it comes to their posts and I don't expect that to change.



In acknowledgement of some spoke/unspoken concerns... . it could be a thin edge of the wedge if you're looking at it from a censorship angle.

I really don't think that is what Robin had in mind, and it certainly isn't the approach I'd take to it.

You may also notice that the "S" word has not been deleted or edited by any auto censor or word filter.

I think the reason is simple that it is a " soft " concern, and that discretion will rule the day.



I'd be disappointed if you got one price for a part and then got 5X the price for the same part from a different dealer. That would be a fair call to point that out, so you'll have no worries about common sense application from me.



I hope we can work with this, since it's likely a non-issue for us anyway...



Bob.