FYI on Removing CAT

[hammersley]

In case you were wondering..... on one of the posts a member had his warranty voided because he had several mods - BUT the Dealer also noted that he had no CAT! Who knows if they will ever get around to giving him a call - but if you do this - be aware that if you get caught - it is a violation of a Federal Law - No Exceptions here boys... ...



Why is tampering an issue?



Since their adoption in 1968, motor vehicle emission controls have been responsible for significant air quality improvements. Hydrocarbon emissions of new motor vehicles are 97% lower than pre-1968 levels. Because of this, federal and state laws have been prohibiting motor vehicle tampering for a number of years.



The federal Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 (the "Act") reinforced those prohibitions. No person may remove or "render inoperative" any emission control device or element of design installed on or in any motor vehicle engine. The Act also prohibits manufacturing, selling, or installing any engine part or component that serves to bypass, defeat, or "render inoperative" any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or engine.



Why are exhaust system repairs regulated?



Engines and the associated emission systems are generally affected by the exhaust back pressure. Therefore, the back pressure and the exhaust system configuration (including the location of the catalytic converter and exhaust pipe diameter and length) are "elements of the design" of a vehicle's emission control system and cannot legally be tampered with. Examples of illegal modifications include:



* Installing a dual exhaust system on a vehicle not originally certified with a dual exhaust, or installing a "fake" dual exhaust after the catalytic converter and after the exhaust system has been joined together to a single pipe



* Changing the pipe configuration (such as a side pipe, stack, or short pipe on a pickup)



* Removing a catalytic converter and installing a converter replacement pipe



* Installing glasspacks or small turbo mufflers instead of direct-fit or cataloged replacement universal mufflers



What are the implications of motor vehicle tampering?



Civil Penalties



A manufacturer or dealer who removes or renders inoperative any emission control device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine is subject to a civil penalty of up to $25,000. Others can be fined up to $2, 500. Anyone manufacturing, selling or installation of any part or component that serves to bypass, defeat or render inoperative any emission control device or element of design is subject to a civil penalty of up $2,500.

 

[JThacker]

Screw 'em.

 

[roverhybrids]

where did you get your information about the " tampering"?
Most of it seems false.

 

[hasselbach]

where did you get your information about the " tampering"?

Most of it seems false.

Its not false, you CANNOT remove any smog device and operate on a public highway... The fines are pretty steep, in fact in California, the CHP can impound your car on the spot.

 

[BTighe]

wouldnt that include anyone making exhaust systems. glad i dont test.

 

[scootergmc]

You can change pipe configurations. You can have cat-backs in CA. Everyone has them. They even have CARB (California Air Resource Board) certification numbers, as do many of the aftermarket exhaust/intake parts sold here, making them legal to put on your vehicle. And CARB is a bunch of Nazi psychos compared to any federal emissions enforcement agency.



But that's not saying there are tons of illegal parts on cars. Shoot, some of the ricer groups with their pimped out hondas and acuras go as far to keep spare stock engines to swap in when smog check time comes. And when the cops bust one of their cruises or street drags, they issue emissions tickets like crazy. It pretty much goes like, "pull over and pop the hood, please. " Funny stuff.

 

[hammersley]

Info came from this site----

http://web.ask.com/redir?u=http://t...ttp://myjeeves.ask.com/action/snip&Complete=1

 

[patcarman]

if i had a newer truck with a cat what i would do is either get a high flow cat then u would be in compliance, or what i used to do when i worked in a garadge, when someone came in that we knew i would cut it off and use a bar and knock out all the honeycomb , basicly gutting it then put it back on,we also cut some of them open , then welded them back and put the sheild on so u could not see them.

 

[BApple]

"Its not false, you CANNOT remove any smog device and operate on a public highway... The fines are pretty steep, in fact in California, the CHP can impound your car on the spot. "





One of only many many reasons to never live in California . My truck likes breathing without the kitty, and I'm sure yours would too .

I still have the kitty to put on in case of any dealer visits .

 

[TX Gooseneck]

I ran mine off for over 100k. I was told by the DEALER that it was a resonnator and not a cat. Once it was off, it was quite obvious what it was. Besides, cat on a diesel doesn't make much sense.

 

[sick_ram]

I was also told by a dealer that it was a resonnator.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

You non-believers can BELIEVE what you want, DO as you please, then CRY long and loud like THIS guy when harsh reality strikes:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125706



And if you prefer to take the advice of some of the "outhouse lawyers" on this board - check to see if they will ALSO represent you in front of a Federal judge or DC area rep...



"Wanna PLAY?, be prepared to PAY!"



Like it or not! :-laf

 

[Patriot_RAM]

I swear I don't remember seeing a cat on my '04 exhaust when I removed it. Did they all have it, or just most of them? I bought the truck in Tulsa, OK. I still have my stock exhaust. I'll have to look tonight when I get home to see if I am remembering correctly.

 

[klenger]

The 305/555 did not have a CAT. The CAT was added on the 325/600 in 04. 5.

 

[rbattelle]

Hammersly, that info says specifically that installing any exhaust other than the OEM system is illegal. But we know there are tons of aftermarket companies selling "50-state legal" exhaust systems. What gives?



-Ryan

 

[TBrennan]

I think were missing the point here. Yes it is definately illegal but does that justify the voiding of the warranty? The dealer may have found a handgun in the glove compartment, can he void the warranty?



The dealer's job is not law enforcement, if they want to call the authorities then fine let them deal with it.



However, in court, would "experts" proclaim that removing the CAT actually HURT the drivetrain in some way? I doubt it would stand up since we all know free flowing is better for the engine.



Of course, the dealer can do whatever they want and you might have an long and expensive fight on your hands ... :{

 

[rbattelle]

Hammersly, that info says specifically that installing any exhaust other than the OEM system is illegal. But we know there are tons of aftermarket companies selling "50-state legal" exhaust systems. What gives?



-Ryan

I think I answered my own question. Looks like that is a state of Maine law, not the federal law.



-Ryan

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Hammersly, that info says specifically that installing any exhaust other than the OEM system is illegal. But we know there are tons of aftermarket companies selling "50-state legal"





I realize that you were in the process of editing the above while I was digging up a reply, but it's worth a comment just the same. There is NO reference in the opening post, or the site pointed to, that say you can't install a CONFORMING or APPROVED replacement system - here again is what it DOES say:



Anyone manufacturing, selling or installation of any part or component that serves to bypass, defeat or render inoperative any emission control device or element of design is subject to a civil penalty of up $2,500.



Notice the above clearly refers to intentional (or ignorant!) modifications or replacements NOT meeting emissions certification. But on a 50 state legal setup that has certification, no problem - otherwise, you are at risk.





And HERE is one of the "outhouse lawyer" opinions I referred to further above:



"However, in court, would "experts" proclaim that removing the CAT actually HURT the drivetrain in some way? I doubt it would stand up since we all know free flowing is better for the engine. "



"Experts" don't have to "proclaim" ANYTHING, the law is clear and quite specific - there would be NO court trial on an issue already so clearly established - NOR is what you or I personally consider as "better for the engine" part of the issue - EPA compliance and certification *IS* the issue, REGARDLESS of what compliance does to or for the engine...



NOW, on the other hand, if YOU are offering to represent a member here in court on the issue, share his jail time and fine if you lose, step right up and publicly vollunteer... :-laf

 

[Patriot_RAM]

Interesting thread. So if I visit California in a 500rwhp truck with stacks but I have Arknasas plates, will I still get nailed on state laws that are violated? (I understand the federal emissions laws, but I'm curious about state specific emmisions laws)

 

[RAndrae]

smog

The California vehicle codes (in summary), section 27150 state that a person can not MODIFY an exhaust system to amplify or change the noise emmited from the vehicle. Section 27151 (a) states that a person cannot modify the the emmision system of a vehicle. Now that was summarized and did not include the FEDERAL sections. Both federal and California sections are basically catch alls. It is up to the officers descretion to enforce these sections. In my professional experience I have never heard of the federal sections being enforced nor have I heard of a person being prosecuted federally. I have heard of persons being cited for CA VC violations. These sections are catch alls that officers could use for Probable cause to make a traffic stop, mostly the noise violation and certainly if they find that you are driving while intoxicated, have drugs, guns whatever you will most likely be cited for the violation that gave them probable cause for the stop. IMO you all are making way to much of this I would seriously doubt that an officer is going to crawl under a truck and then cite you for no cat or whatever. At a smog station who are they going to call??? Dont get me wrong it is a violation and a person COULD be cited and yeah I guess they could impound your ride but they could do this to almost 99 out of a 100 Harley Davidsons or other street bikes and most certainly to most any other car or truck out there.

REMEMBER there are also some federal and alot of CA VC code that apply to altering the drive train IE: lift kits, tinted windows, item hanging from the rear view mirror, tires protruding past the fender well ect, that violating can result in having a ride to jail and your ride impounded. The dealer in my area said they have never themselves or heard of another dealer that VOIDED a warranty due to a cat missing, they said it could void the emmision warranty "But who cares if there is no cat".