G56 clutch changes? Grabby on new '17

[photowrite]

Is anyone aware of recent changes to the clutch and/or flywheel on G56-equipped trucks, specifically after 2014?

This past Saturday I bought a new, 2017 Ram/Cummins 2500, regular cab with G56 transmission. This is an addition to my fleet, which includes a 2014 Ram/Cummins 2500, crew cab, also with G56 transmission. The 2014 has about 40.7k on it, and has always had a nice, perfectly smooth clutch that modulates well (with zero accelerator/fuel added). So nice in fact, that my alignment guy commented on the clutch when he pulled it onto his rack (when new in ‘14) for my baseline alignment check.

During my brief test drive of the 2017 this past Saturday, I did notice the clutch was a bit grabby/abrupt when it hooks-up. It wasn’t bad enough that I wanted to abort the purchase. (I'd made a long distance telephone deal, great price, and wanted to buy ‘this’ truck. Pretty hard to find a reg. cab G56.)

As of today the 2017 has about 400 miles. I drove both of my G56 trucks back-to-back this afternoon, and confirmed the difference, I’m confident it would be quite noticeable to any proficient/expert operator of manual transmission/clutch machines. I don’t wear clutches (or brakes). My question/complaint/comment is about low-idle engagement (no added fuel) in first, second, and reverse.

With many/most stock clutches there is a nice, smooth grey-area where the clutch has yet to fully engaged, nor disengaged, and a good driver can move the pedal either direction and there is nothing rough Like might be needed for slow control while backing a trailer in tight quarters, etc. Adding rpm and adding slippage can help, but is not a solution, and actually increases wear and offers less control for low speed work.

No matter how smooth I am, at the point of engagement, the 2017 grabs and jerks some, and if I try to keep it in the ‘grey-area’, it sometimes starts to buck and jump a little more.

It feels like how I’d imagine a clutch might feel without a dual-mass flywheel (though I don’t know, haven't driven one without a DM flywheel), almost like the engine idling pulses are being transferred instead of being absorbed it that makes sense. Of course there are always differences between similar, though not identical trucks, but something doesn't seem right. I use/slip the clutch very little, but when I do I want it to be smooth.

When I have time, likely in a few weeks, I do plan to have a dealer cut/program a couple extra keys, and will mention it then.

G56 clutch changes? Grabby on new ’17

Thanks for reading and opinions/input if you have something.


James

 

[RVTRKN]

The first G56 I test drove in an 07 3500 C&C actually stalled on me leaving the dealer. I slipped it slowly starting out in 2nd gear without giving it throttle, as I had done in my 04.5 for three years. It seemed as if it was rough, so to not stall it again, I slipped it with a little throttle and seemed fine. Then I took delivery of my 07 C&C with the G56 and it seemed better, but it would stall if I didn't give it throttle while slipping it in 2nd starting out. Now that I have a SMF with a DD3250 clutch, I still have to slip it starting in 2nd with a little throttle. I always liked the NV5600 clutch starting out in 2nd without throttle. In fact, my daughter dumped the clutch while I was in the back of the boat pulling it out of the water. It obviously was a steep incline being a boat ramp, and it almost threw me out of the boat when she dumped it, but it didn't stall and up the ramp we went. I always assumed it was just the designed clutch and flywheel for the G56, so I have to guess it's normal, and your earlier G56 was an anomaly.

 

[AH64ID]

The first G56 I test drove in an 07 3500 C&C actually stalled on me leaving the dealer. I slipped it slowly starting out in 2nd gear without giving it throttle, as I had done in my 04.5 for three years. It seemed as if it was rough, so to not stall it again, I slipped it with a little throttle and seemed fine. Then I took delivery of my 07 C&C with the G56 and it seemed better, but it would stall if I didn't give it throttle while slipping it in 2nd starting out. Now that I have a SMF with a DD3250 clutch, I still have to slip it starting in 2nd with a little throttle. I always liked the NV5600 clutch starting out in 2nd without throttle. In fact, my daughter dumped the clutch while I was in the back of the boat pulling it out of the water. It obviously was a steep incline being a boat ramp, and it almost threw me out of the boat when she dumped it, but it didn't stall and up the ramp we went. I always assumed it was just the designed clutch and flywheel for the G56, so I have to guess it's normal, and your earlier G56 was an anomaly.

Since there was a clutch change in 2013 I am not sure it applies, but my dad's 2006 acts just like the OP's 2014 and my 2005 NV5600. From a normal start zero fuel is required for slipping/starting. This is also my personal experience with a 2010, 2011, and a 2012 thou I don't have as many miles on them. I've never seen one stall unless a VERY abrupt clutch engagement was made... such as dumping the clutch while at idle with zero fuel.

 

[photowrite]

The first G56 I test drove in an 07 3500 C&C actually stalled on me leaving the dealer. I slipped it slowly starting out in 2nd gear without giving it throttle, as I had done in my 04.5 for three years. It seemed as if it was rough, so to not stall it again, I slipped it with a little throttle and seemed fine. Then I took delivery of my 07 C&C with the G56 and it seemed better, but it would stall if I didn't give it throttle while slipping it in 2nd starting out.

It doesn't feel like it's going to stall, though I'm sure it would if I engaged the clutch more quickly without fuel...could be a different way of sharing a similar symptom.

Now that I have a SMF with a DD3250 clutch, I still have to slip it starting in 2nd with a little throttle. I always liked the NV5600 clutch starting out in 2nd without throttle. In fact, my daughter dumped the clutch while I was in the back of the boat pulling it out of the water.

Yeah, giving it a slight amount of fuel helps 'drive around it' some, but doesn't change the character.

It obviously was a steep incline being a boat ramp, and it almost threw me out of the boat when she dumped it, but it didn't stall and up the ramp we went. I always assumed it was just the designed clutch and flywheel for the G56, so I have to guess it's normal, and your earlier G56 was an anomaly.

Good point about my '14 possibly be the exception and the '17 being 'normal'.

Before buying my '14 I only took one short drive in another G56 truck, but that was three years ago and I don't remember anything catching my attention. Doesn't mean it wasn't more like my '17 or '14, I just don't remember.

 

[photowrite]

Since there was a clutch change in 2013 I am not sure it applies, but my dad's 2006 acts just like the OP's 2014 and my 2005 NV5600. From a normal start zero fuel is required for slipping/starting. This is also my personal experience with a 2010, 2011, and a 2012 thou I don't have as many miles on them. I've never seen one stall unless a VERY abrupt clutch engagement was made... such as dumping the clutch while at idle with zero fuel.

Yep, stalling is not the issue, just less than ideal clutch engagement. Maybe I'm asking for too much, and the '17 is not going to be perfectly smooth and easy to modulate precisely under all conditions like the '14. Last night I even tried a little intentional slipping/scuffing to see if a bit of wear might help. I don't think it helped, and I'm uncomfortable with the idea of needless slipping. I'll give it a little time and more study.

 

[AH64ID]

Yep, stalling is not the issue, just less than ideal clutch engagement. Maybe I'm asking for too much, and the '17 is not going to be perfectly smooth and easy to modulate precisely under all conditions like the '14. Last night I even tried a little intentional slipping/scuffing to see if a bit of wear might help. I don't think it helped, and I'm uncomfortable with the idea of needless slipping. I'll give it a little time and more study.

Based on my experiences with G56's and the OEM clutch your '14 sounds like the norm and your '17 doesn't, but I don't have any personal experience with the reworked clutch for the increase to 660 lb/ft.

 

[Newsa]

i test drove a 2013 3500 dually before buying my 2013 2500.

The clutch was grabby on the 3500. Smooth as silk on the 2500.

 

[RVTRKN]

Maybe the 3500's has a different clutch due to the higher GVWR and tow ratings, just a thought.

 

[Newsa]

Maybe the 3500's has a different clutch due to the higher GVWR and tow ratings, just a thought.

Maybe? I don"t know. IIRC it had 4.10's. Tradesman with few options.

 

[Regcabguy]

I stalled mine once in Oct '06 driving home with my new Ram from Oceanside here.
Stock clutch was always silky smooth from birth. SBC OKHD is pretty smooth also.
I've always just let the clutch out.

 

[GCroyle]

Stock system, engagement should be smooth and in drivers control when used properly, like 1st with any load and 2nd if EMPTY. Also check same against REV, should also be chauffeur smooth. Smooth in REV but not 1st or 2nd, it ain't the clutch.

Also, several other vehicle systems need to be functioning correctly, motor and trans mounts, drive shaft & carrier brg, axle spring bushings and even the entire clutch release system.

 

[hcole]

Photowrite, does your truck give you automatic throttle increase when you get below 850-875 RPMs? If I forget to down shift or push in the clutch at a turn or stop, my truck will speed up automatically to stay at 850 RPMs. It will scare you if you're not used to a manual Cummins. I was wondering if the Ram people have taken that program feature out on the new trucks.

 

[photowrite]

i test drove a 2013 3500 dually before buying my 2013 2500.

The clutch was grabby on the 3500. Smooth as silk on the 2500.

That is one advantage to being able to test drive multiple, similar rigs and pick one, instead of ordering or having only one available.

 

[Regcabguy]

Photowrite, does your truck give you automatic throttle increase when you get below 850-875 RPMs? If I forget to down shift or push in the clutch at a turn or stop, my truck will speed up automatically to stay at 850 RPMs. It will scare you if you're not used to a manual Cummins. I was wondering if the Ram people have taken that program feature out on the new trucks.

Mine does that from new. Startled me at first.

 

[photowrite]

Stock system, engagement should be smooth and in drivers control when used properly, like 1st with any load and 2nd if EMPTY. Also check same against REV, should also be chauffeur smooth. Smooth in REV but not 1st or 2nd, it ain't the clutch.

Also, several other vehicle systems need to be functioning correctly, motor and trans mounts, drive shaft & carrier brg, axle spring bushings and even the entire clutch release system.

I agree with everything you said. It is not smooth in reverse either. I also am in agreement and wonder if it is mounts, or some of the other things in the driveline. Hope to make it to a dealer in a couple weeks to see if they offer any help, though I'm skeptical about action on this type of compliant...not many can 'proficiently' operate a clutch and manual transmission these days. But I'm going to think positively and hope, as well as think about how to briefly articulate the behavior.

 

[photowrite]

Photowrite, does your truck give you automatic throttle increase when you get below 850-875 RPMs? If I forget to down shift or push in the clutch at a turn or stop, my truck will speed up automatically to stay at 850 RPMs. It will scare you if you're not used to a manual Cummins. I was wondering if the Ram people have taken that program feature out on the new trucks.

I don't think my 17 does that, I know my 14 does not. That sounds like gas engine behavior.

 

[Newsa]

That is one advantage to being able to test drive multiple, similar rigs and pick one, instead of ordering or having only one available.

Except, I lucked out with the 2500. i bought it off a lot 4 states away and had it delivered without ever test driving it.

I just wondered if it was me when I test drove the 3500......having never driven a cummins. But I think it was the clutch in the 3500 after driving the 2500 & having something to compare to

 

[photowrite]

Photowrite, does your truck give you automatic throttle increase when you get below 850-875 RPMs? If I forget to down shift or push in the clutch at a turn or stop, my truck will speed up automatically to stay at 850 RPMs. It will scare you if you're not used to a manual Cummins. I was wondering if the Ram people have taken that program feature out on the new trucks.

My trucks actually idle at 800 rpm.

 

[photowrite]

Except, I lucked out with the 2500. i bought it off a lot 4 states away and had it delivered without ever test driving it.

I just wondered if it was me when I test drove the 3500......having never driven a cummins. But I think it was the clutch in the 3500 after driving the 2500 & having something to compare to

I got lucky with my 2014 also...bought over the phone and had it shipped from Idaho to me in Nevada. Clutch was fantastic and still is (as it should be) 40k later.

Commneting on another post...I think it's extrmemly unlikely the clutch/flywheel are different on any of the late model G56/Cummins trucks.

 

[photowrite]

Enjoying the truck anyway

Though I want the clutch to operate like the '14, as it should, I'm enjoying driving such a light, bone stock truck. It's a different animal from my heavy, built 2014 with a camper in the bed. Except for this clutch issue, it drives well and feels good.