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Gary-Q
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Turbo Tim 1
TDR MEMBER
Here is my thought's on additives
Additives at [url]www.bobistheoilguy.com[/URL]
To each his own but I personally wouldn't add anything to my crankcase other than then properly rated oil, many guys do just that and get hundreds of thousands of miles out of them, why would you want to add some snake oils.
Additives at [url]www.bobistheoilguy.com[/URL]
To each his own but I personally wouldn't add anything to my crankcase other than then properly rated oil, many guys do just that and get hundreds of thousands of miles out of them, why would you want to add some snake oils.
I have had 2 different vehicles bought used in past years, both turned out to be oil burners. Added STP, oil consumption dropped by 75%, engine operated much smoother. Both vehicles were still operating acceptaably when sold couple of years later with NO repairs made.
The oil samples I have posted here, all with exceptionally LOW wear numbers, were from dino oil with STP added. I had a '69 Ford with a V8 engine that blew a radiator hose unknown to me, engine got so hot it seized up. When it cooled and water added, functioned as always for another 5 years until sold, still operating properly - never had the heads off, had 120,000 miles on it at the time of sale. STP has high zinc content - zinc is what is already included in dino oil as an anti-scuffing ingredient - I have many other similar favorable FIRST HAND experiences with STP - I dislike "snake oils" as much as the next guy, but when I find one that WORKS, *I* will use it, and leave others to make up their own minds...
YMMV!
The oil samples I have posted here, all with exceptionally LOW wear numbers, were from dino oil with STP added. I had a '69 Ford with a V8 engine that blew a radiator hose unknown to me, engine got so hot it seized up. When it cooled and water added, functioned as always for another 5 years until sold, still operating properly - never had the heads off, had 120,000 miles on it at the time of sale. STP has high zinc content - zinc is what is already included in dino oil as an anti-scuffing ingredient - I have many other similar favorable FIRST HAND experiences with STP - I dislike "snake oils" as much as the next guy, but when I find one that WORKS, *I* will use it, and leave others to make up their own minds...
YMMV!
MORE...
I worked for over 30 years as a pressman at 2 newspapers - our printing presses used open-running gear trains that required hand application of grease for lubrication. Gear wear was a problem, with one set in the train failing on a regular basis. The grease used - recommended by the press manufacturer - would pretty much immediately be squeezed out of the gears, leaving poor lubrication. Having good experience with STP in my vehicles, and recognizing its tendency to "cling"to parts it is applied to, I started mixing STP to our grease lube for the presses - and NEVER lost or replaced another gear in all the years I worked there.
We had friends with an old, but treasured record player - beautiful cabinet - but it would no longer change records, and simply got hung up and stalled the motor. They knew I worked on electronic stuff, so asked if I would look at their record player. I thoroughly cleaned the mechanism, and carefully oiled it - but it still refused to operate properly. I repeated the cleaning/oiling several times, but no go. I then substituted STP for the regular oil, and it IMMEDIATELY begn functioning perfectly - still was last I knew.
My daughter currently drives an early 90's Acura with almost 300,000 miles on the engine (it doesn't necessarily take a diesel for great longevity!) - but it was finally showing signs of getting tired - a little more engine noise, and a quart of oil at every tank of fuel. I suggested she try STP, since I had good experience in the same circumstances - and her oil consumption dropped immediately by two thirds. She is still driving that car - trying for 400,000 miles...
The only "downside" with STP, if you want to consider it so, is that it WILL deeply penetrate the pores of engine parts, and requires a bit of extra effort to remove when engine overhauls are required. I worked for a year or so at a small manufacturing outfit that also did auto machining - and engines that had used STP required that we have our hot tank fully charged with caustic, and extra time in that tank to remove the STP so proper machining and honing could be performed - and while "normal" engines would almost immediately begin rusting after removal from the hot tank and steam cleaning, the STP treated ones would not rust - at least on the INSIDE, where the STP had been in contact.
I personally consider a lubricant that so clearly displays the ability to penetrate and cling into the actual PORES of the metals it is applied to, to be a PLUS, not a negative!
On my '02, after about 15,000 miles, and after it sat overnite in colder weather, I was beginning to get a small engine knock the first several engine revolutions before oil pressure came up to normal - not all that uncommon, but I didn't like it - so that was when I began adding a bottle of STP to my oil - I have NEVER heard that startup knock since.
Those are only a few of my own long time DIRECT experiences with use of STP - some engine related, some not - but ALL display the superior lubricating and compresssion sealing capabilities of STP. With my new engine, I use a minimal amount, it contains much the same additive that is also used by major oil refiners - just more of it. I am perticularly interested in the extra "slipperyness" it provides, and the added scuff resistance it provides in extreme conditions. It has never disappointed me yet!
I worked for over 30 years as a pressman at 2 newspapers - our printing presses used open-running gear trains that required hand application of grease for lubrication. Gear wear was a problem, with one set in the train failing on a regular basis. The grease used - recommended by the press manufacturer - would pretty much immediately be squeezed out of the gears, leaving poor lubrication. Having good experience with STP in my vehicles, and recognizing its tendency to "cling"to parts it is applied to, I started mixing STP to our grease lube for the presses - and NEVER lost or replaced another gear in all the years I worked there.
We had friends with an old, but treasured record player - beautiful cabinet - but it would no longer change records, and simply got hung up and stalled the motor. They knew I worked on electronic stuff, so asked if I would look at their record player. I thoroughly cleaned the mechanism, and carefully oiled it - but it still refused to operate properly. I repeated the cleaning/oiling several times, but no go. I then substituted STP for the regular oil, and it IMMEDIATELY begn functioning perfectly - still was last I knew.
My daughter currently drives an early 90's Acura with almost 300,000 miles on the engine (it doesn't necessarily take a diesel for great longevity!) - but it was finally showing signs of getting tired - a little more engine noise, and a quart of oil at every tank of fuel. I suggested she try STP, since I had good experience in the same circumstances - and her oil consumption dropped immediately by two thirds. She is still driving that car - trying for 400,000 miles...
The only "downside" with STP, if you want to consider it so, is that it WILL deeply penetrate the pores of engine parts, and requires a bit of extra effort to remove when engine overhauls are required. I worked for a year or so at a small manufacturing outfit that also did auto machining - and engines that had used STP required that we have our hot tank fully charged with caustic, and extra time in that tank to remove the STP so proper machining and honing could be performed - and while "normal" engines would almost immediately begin rusting after removal from the hot tank and steam cleaning, the STP treated ones would not rust - at least on the INSIDE, where the STP had been in contact.
I personally consider a lubricant that so clearly displays the ability to penetrate and cling into the actual PORES of the metals it is applied to, to be a PLUS, not a negative!
On my '02, after about 15,000 miles, and after it sat overnite in colder weather, I was beginning to get a small engine knock the first several engine revolutions before oil pressure came up to normal - not all that uncommon, but I didn't like it - so that was when I began adding a bottle of STP to my oil - I have NEVER heard that startup knock since.
Those are only a few of my own long time DIRECT experiences with use of STP - some engine related, some not - but ALL display the superior lubricating and compresssion sealing capabilities of STP. With my new engine, I use a minimal amount, it contains much the same additive that is also used by major oil refiners - just more of it. I am perticularly interested in the extra "slipperyness" it provides, and the added scuff resistance it provides in extreme conditions. It has never disappointed me yet!
STP-- it's a polymeric thickener designed to make a thin 5W or 10W oil perform like an SAE 30 or SAE40 at the upper temperatures.
The shear stability of STP is very poor, and it breaks down quickly (thus the sludge).
STP WILL do all the things Gary described- reduce consumption and knocking, "cling" to metal parts.
But it does it the wrong way. Polymeric thickeners are notoriously unstable. The break down quickly and sludge up. They oxidize readily at high temps. Think of THAT when you contemplate the oil lubing your turbo!
Finally, I disagree that STP will "penetrate" the pores of the metal. It doesn't happen. While it MAY *stick* to the parts and be hard to wash off, that's quite a distance from *penetrating* the metal!!
I can reproduce each of Gary's "examples" with a very thick synthetic oil. I would venture to say that Redline 20W-50 would do EVERYTHING that the STP would do, except sludge up.
Keep in mind that sludge will "prevent" leaks, but that doesn't mean sludge is good, does it??
Bottom line to me is to run a quality oil-- no additives needed.
Justin
The shear stability of STP is very poor, and it breaks down quickly (thus the sludge).
STP WILL do all the things Gary described- reduce consumption and knocking, "cling" to metal parts.
But it does it the wrong way. Polymeric thickeners are notoriously unstable. The break down quickly and sludge up. They oxidize readily at high temps. Think of THAT when you contemplate the oil lubing your turbo!
Finally, I disagree that STP will "penetrate" the pores of the metal. It doesn't happen. While it MAY *stick* to the parts and be hard to wash off, that's quite a distance from *penetrating* the metal!!
I can reproduce each of Gary's "examples" with a very thick synthetic oil. I would venture to say that Redline 20W-50 would do EVERYTHING that the STP would do, except sludge up.
Keep in mind that sludge will "prevent" leaks, but that doesn't mean sludge is good, does it??
Bottom line to me is to run a quality oil-- no additives needed.
Justin
BTW-- the Zinc that Gary refers to is actually in the form of ZDDP, which IIRC is zinc diethyldiphoshate, an extreme pressure lubrication additive.
There's an additive called "oil extreme" that has a VERY high amount of this stuff in it. If you seek the benefit of ZDDP, I would recommend the Oil Extreme over any STP.
Let's face it STP is very old technology. It's hard to believe that modern oil chemistry could benefit from the addition of 50s-era technology.
Hohn
There's an additive called "oil extreme" that has a VERY high amount of this stuff in it. If you seek the benefit of ZDDP, I would recommend the Oil Extreme over any STP.
Let's face it STP is very old technology. It's hard to believe that modern oil chemistry could benefit from the addition of 50s-era technology.
Hohn
Turbo Tim 1
TDR MEMBER
I have used STP when assembling engines, it sticks well and provides a nice film of oil for the initial start. In cases like that or in cases of Garys printing press sure that's great.
Well, there ya go - much like the political forums, "proof" really doesn't buy ya much... 
Never mind that I have used the stuff for hundreds of thousands of miles, have provided pics of my oil cleanliness on a diptick, and EXCELLENT oil analysis results, there will always be those who cry "Snake oil", and totally ignore reasonable proof provided, and prefer "text book science" argument over real-world results!
But that's OK I got laughed at a lot with my toilet paper oil filters too, again in spite of satisfactory performance and oil analysis - some guys absolutely INSISTED that TP could not possibly provide good filtering, would dissolve into the crankcase, channel and become ineffective, etc. , etc...
"I can reproduce each of Gary's "examples" with a very thick synthetic oil. I would venture to say that Redline 20W-50 would do EVERYTHING that the STP would do, except sludge up"
Well Justin, I dunno about you, but *I* sorta shy away from wild, extreme claims - and will assume YOU do as well, so here's the deal:
If you REALLY believe what you said above. I'm willing to use my daughter's Acura in a test of the above - we have already established a 66% percent reduction in oil consumption with the addition of one bottle of STP to her crankcase - we will DRAIN her oil, and refill with her regular brand of motor oil, to which we will add the SAME amount of 90/140 wt. Amsoil oil as is in a bottle of STP, but can easily obtain the Redline stuff too if you prefer, since they are only about 20 miles from here - I happen to have the specified Amsoil out in the garage.
THEN, if your claim proves correct, we should see the same, or BETTER results with the heavy synthetic oil, RIGHT? If not, will you pay for the oil change? If YOU are correct, *I* will pay for YOUR next oil change on your truck - DEAL?
I often don't deal with or rely entirely upon theortical science or textbook analysis - but rather, on what REALLY has proven to work in MY "real world"... 
Weren't there a few aeronautical engineers a while back who got together and decided it was scientifically and physically impossible for a Bumble Bee to fly...
Again, YMMV...
Never mind that I have used the stuff for hundreds of thousands of miles, have provided pics of my oil cleanliness on a diptick, and EXCELLENT oil analysis results, there will always be those who cry "Snake oil", and totally ignore reasonable proof provided, and prefer "text book science" argument over real-world results!
But that's OK I got laughed at a lot with my toilet paper oil filters too, again in spite of satisfactory performance and oil analysis - some guys absolutely INSISTED that TP could not possibly provide good filtering, would dissolve into the crankcase, channel and become ineffective, etc. , etc...
"I can reproduce each of Gary's "examples" with a very thick synthetic oil. I would venture to say that Redline 20W-50 would do EVERYTHING that the STP would do, except sludge up"
Well Justin, I dunno about you, but *I* sorta shy away from wild, extreme claims - and will assume YOU do as well, so here's the deal:
If you REALLY believe what you said above. I'm willing to use my daughter's Acura in a test of the above - we have already established a 66% percent reduction in oil consumption with the addition of one bottle of STP to her crankcase - we will DRAIN her oil, and refill with her regular brand of motor oil, to which we will add the SAME amount of 90/140 wt. Amsoil oil as is in a bottle of STP, but can easily obtain the Redline stuff too if you prefer, since they are only about 20 miles from here - I happen to have the specified Amsoil out in the garage.
THEN, if your claim proves correct, we should see the same, or BETTER results with the heavy synthetic oil, RIGHT? If not, will you pay for the oil change? If YOU are correct, *I* will pay for YOUR next oil change on your truck - DEAL?
I often don't deal with or rely entirely upon theortical science or textbook analysis - but rather, on what REALLY has proven to work in MY "real world"...
Weren't there a few aeronautical engineers a while back who got together and decided it was scientifically and physically impossible for a Bumble Bee to fly...
Again, YMMV...
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"Gary, I am glad you like the product you are using and are having good luck with it. To each his own. "
Pretty hard to change a mind that's never actually TRIED what they are critical of, and already made up - the greatest frustration is when the critics adamantly INSIST it can't possibly function as you claim, in the face of abundant evidence it DOES!
I owned my '91 Dodge/Cummins for 11 years and nearly 120,000 miles, never a SINGLE problem with the engine or turbo - most towing our 5th wheel trailer. Had the valves adjusted twice, did it myself the last time at about 100,000 miles, and absolutely NO trace of the slightest "sludge" or other nasties to be seen - and had been using STP at a ratio of 3 bottles per oil change since about 20,000 break-in miles on the engine. If "sludge" is gonna show anywhere, it will certainly be in the valvecovers! And again the oil analysis sheets I display here are FROM that truck!
SO, when a "textbook critic" starts telling me what I am using is gonna do all those terrible things - in spite of my personal experience and clear evidence to the contrary, all *I* can do, is
I'm as skeptical as the next guy, but some folks READ too much - and TRY too little!
Pretty hard to change a mind that's never actually TRIED what they are critical of, and already made up - the greatest frustration is when the critics adamantly INSIST it can't possibly function as you claim, in the face of abundant evidence it DOES!
I owned my '91 Dodge/Cummins for 11 years and nearly 120,000 miles, never a SINGLE problem with the engine or turbo - most towing our 5th wheel trailer. Had the valves adjusted twice, did it myself the last time at about 100,000 miles, and absolutely NO trace of the slightest "sludge" or other nasties to be seen - and had been using STP at a ratio of 3 bottles per oil change since about 20,000 break-in miles on the engine. If "sludge" is gonna show anywhere, it will certainly be in the valvecovers! And again the oil analysis sheets I display here are FROM that truck!
SO, when a "textbook critic" starts telling me what I am using is gonna do all those terrible things - in spite of my personal experience and clear evidence to the contrary, all *I* can do, is
I'm as skeptical as the next guy, but some folks READ too much - and TRY too little!
Gary, please don't think that I am trying to bait you or flame you or anything.
I have used STP myself. It's great for quieting down an engine with noisy lifters. It does have some short-lived detergent value as well, so it will help clean things up a little bit. It's fine as an assembly lube.
Is it the best assembly lube? NOPE-- they make assembly lubes for that. Is it the best at cleaning out an engine? Nope- a highly detergent oil (like a CH-4 rated oil) will do much better.
STP is basically one step up the food chain from Vaseline. You can lubricate things with petrolatum. It will also prevent corrosion on exposed metal because it "clings" to metal...
If you're happy with STP, Gary, then I'm not about to try to discourage you from using it. Have at it. But if there's someone else who doesn't have the history with it that you do, then maybe they would be best advised (by someone like me) to NOT use STP as an engine oil additive, but rather for all the other odd-job type of uses you mentioned.
STP won't often cause sludge in a diesel because diesel oil is highly detergent. Take any gasser car that's sludged badly and run a couple changes of Diesel oil though it and it will be clean as a whistle.
Marvel Mystery oil has quite a following. It's mostly Kerosene! But a lot of people SWEAR by it. Fine, let them run it and be happy. But don't expect me to sing the praises of old timer's tricks and their chemicals.
By the way, I accept your offer to test on your daughter's Acura. But I insist that the oil be Redline, and that it be 20W-60HD because STP has such a high viscosity. The Redline will cost about the same as a qt of STP. The 90/140 Amsoil is NOT a good choice because that's a GEAR LUBE, and could easily ruin a nice engine or cause minor damage. Be prepared for side effects with the Redline. It will clean out the gum so it might reveal a leak that was "sealed" by sludge. It will blacken quickly as the detergents do their job.
Keep in mind that the Redline is designed as an oil, not just an additive, so the best test would be A WHOLE OIL CHANGE to the redline, not just one quart.
I am a man of my word, and if the one qt of Redline 20w-60HD doesn't give you similar results (quieter engine, lower consumption, etc) in the Acura as the STP does (I would expect much better) then I WILL BUY YOUR NEXT OIL CHANGE-- of the oil you are presently using.
In short, imho the best additive is the one that's already in the oil. If you're not happy with the consumption or other aspect of the oil you're using, then don't look to an additive, look to a different brand or grade of oil!!
Gary, your loyalty to STP is obvious from the near-novel you have written extolling its virtues. You are not alone-- I know there are thousands (if not more) people who feel the way you do about the product. I am not trying to discredit that or your experience.
But we have to keep it apples to apples. Lubricating printing presses and engines are different worlds entirely. An oil ADDITIVE is different that a quart of oil.
Good luyck with your STP. Let me know if I need to send you a check for anything.
Justin
I have used STP myself. It's great for quieting down an engine with noisy lifters. It does have some short-lived detergent value as well, so it will help clean things up a little bit. It's fine as an assembly lube.
Is it the best assembly lube? NOPE-- they make assembly lubes for that. Is it the best at cleaning out an engine? Nope- a highly detergent oil (like a CH-4 rated oil) will do much better.
STP is basically one step up the food chain from Vaseline. You can lubricate things with petrolatum. It will also prevent corrosion on exposed metal because it "clings" to metal...
If you're happy with STP, Gary, then I'm not about to try to discourage you from using it. Have at it. But if there's someone else who doesn't have the history with it that you do, then maybe they would be best advised (by someone like me) to NOT use STP as an engine oil additive, but rather for all the other odd-job type of uses you mentioned.
STP won't often cause sludge in a diesel because diesel oil is highly detergent. Take any gasser car that's sludged badly and run a couple changes of Diesel oil though it and it will be clean as a whistle.
Marvel Mystery oil has quite a following. It's mostly Kerosene! But a lot of people SWEAR by it. Fine, let them run it and be happy. But don't expect me to sing the praises of old timer's tricks and their chemicals.
By the way, I accept your offer to test on your daughter's Acura. But I insist that the oil be Redline, and that it be 20W-60HD because STP has such a high viscosity. The Redline will cost about the same as a qt of STP. The 90/140 Amsoil is NOT a good choice because that's a GEAR LUBE, and could easily ruin a nice engine or cause minor damage. Be prepared for side effects with the Redline. It will clean out the gum so it might reveal a leak that was "sealed" by sludge. It will blacken quickly as the detergents do their job.
Keep in mind that the Redline is designed as an oil, not just an additive, so the best test would be A WHOLE OIL CHANGE to the redline, not just one quart.
I am a man of my word, and if the one qt of Redline 20w-60HD doesn't give you similar results (quieter engine, lower consumption, etc) in the Acura as the STP does (I would expect much better) then I WILL BUY YOUR NEXT OIL CHANGE-- of the oil you are presently using.
In short, imho the best additive is the one that's already in the oil. If you're not happy with the consumption or other aspect of the oil you're using, then don't look to an additive, look to a different brand or grade of oil!!
Gary, your loyalty to STP is obvious from the near-novel you have written extolling its virtues. You are not alone-- I know there are thousands (if not more) people who feel the way you do about the product. I am not trying to discredit that or your experience.
But we have to keep it apples to apples. Lubricating printing presses and engines are different worlds entirely. An oil ADDITIVE is different that a quart of oil.
Good luyck with your STP. Let me know if I need to send you a check for anything.
Justin
Well Justin, pricewise, comparing a crankcase full of $10 a quart synthetic to a $1. 69 single bottle of STP is pretty radical - but your challenge is accepted - it'll take a while for me to get the Red Line stuff and new filter - I'll keep all receipts - and then we'll see if it can match the oil consumption reduction of the STP. My daughter just had her oil changed 2 days ago, we'll carefully document oil added over the next 1000 miles - she drives a lot, so not a problem - then we'll switch oils and install a new filter - with 4 quarts of Red Line and a filter, probably looking at around $50 in oil and filter - but then, I probably should buy several extra quarts at the same time, in case she needs it to top off for what is consumed...
By the way, truth is, this isn't really untried water for me I've done this test before some years back. Main difference was that then I was using 20/50 Dino oil as I recall, rather than synthetic - didn't help at all, just made the oil pressure come up more slowly and more bearing knock until it did, no reduction in oil consumption - so then went with 30 wt and STP, got excellent results. Fact is the synthetic MIGHT create an unintended consequence in gasket leakage - no way to control or estimate that if it occurs - just hafta take what we get...
Don't wander too far from yer checkbook!
ON the other hand, just to show mutual trust, if YOU have access to a generally good running but worn engine in your area, I'm entirely willing to let you do the test on YOUR end if you choose. I only chose my daughter's because it fits the parameters, and it's sitting out in my driveway as I type this...
I'll keep in touch.
By the way, truth is, this isn't really untried water for me I've done this test before some years back. Main difference was that then I was using 20/50 Dino oil as I recall, rather than synthetic - didn't help at all, just made the oil pressure come up more slowly and more bearing knock until it did, no reduction in oil consumption - so then went with 30 wt and STP, got excellent results. Fact is the synthetic MIGHT create an unintended consequence in gasket leakage - no way to control or estimate that if it occurs - just hafta take what we get...
Don't wander too far from yer checkbook!
ON the other hand, just to show mutual trust, if YOU have access to a generally good running but worn engine in your area, I'm entirely willing to let you do the test on YOUR end if you choose. I only chose my daughter's because it fits the parameters, and it's sitting out in my driveway as I type this...
I'll keep in touch.
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Well, I don't really have a good test subject engine available. My Nissan has a mere 112K on it and the inside of the engine is sugically clean-- and btw, it doesn't use a drop between changes. The dipstick level won't change (that I can say anyway) in 10K miles which is how often i change the Redline in it.
I have used Redline 10w-30 and 5w-30 predominantly (minus 2K on dino Valvoline and a couple intervals of mobil 1). I bought the car with 29K on it, and there was already some sludging on the valvetrain. After ONE CHANGE of the redline, it was clean. The redline was not-- it was really black and got dark fast. But each succeeding change it darkened more and more slowly.
Proof? Maybe to me. To someone else? Probably like you mentioned about the political threads.
Anyway, it looks like I am in the same boat with Redline that you are with STP-- I like it and believe in it a lot, but convincing someone of that it an uphill battle.
Is redline the ultimate oil? Maybe. It's certainly in the running for the most expensive! But who needs that kind of oil in an engine that will go 500K on Rotella?
Redline is more of a racing and worst-case scenario type of oil. For the average guy racking up hwy miles, I doubt it's worth it.
I'll probably end up switching back and being the schmuck that pays $30 a gallon for oil. Needed? Nope. But I am a sucker for donig things the best way possible, and you can bet that I have a weakness for putting in the best (imho) oil, needed or not.
BTW-- I have a similar testimonial on my Nissan's cooling system using Redline WaterWetter. The inside of the radiator has NO CORROSION at all. And this is with 112K on the original part, and only one coolant change. Just standard EG coolant with 2 bottles of WW. The stuff works like a charm to lower temps and prevent corrosion.
Justin
I have used Redline 10w-30 and 5w-30 predominantly (minus 2K on dino Valvoline and a couple intervals of mobil 1). I bought the car with 29K on it, and there was already some sludging on the valvetrain. After ONE CHANGE of the redline, it was clean. The redline was not-- it was really black and got dark fast. But each succeeding change it darkened more and more slowly.
Proof? Maybe to me. To someone else? Probably like you mentioned about the political threads.
Anyway, it looks like I am in the same boat with Redline that you are with STP-- I like it and believe in it a lot, but convincing someone of that it an uphill battle.
Is redline the ultimate oil? Maybe. It's certainly in the running for the most expensive! But who needs that kind of oil in an engine that will go 500K on Rotella?
Redline is more of a racing and worst-case scenario type of oil. For the average guy racking up hwy miles, I doubt it's worth it.
I'll probably end up switching back and being the schmuck that pays $30 a gallon for oil. Needed? Nope. But I am a sucker for donig things the best way possible, and you can bet that I have a weakness for putting in the best (imho) oil, needed or not.
BTW-- I have a similar testimonial on my Nissan's cooling system using Redline WaterWetter. The inside of the radiator has NO CORROSION at all. And this is with 112K on the original part, and only one coolant change. Just standard EG coolant with 2 bottles of WW. The stuff works like a charm to lower temps and prevent corrosion.
Justin
HEY, I like Redline stuff - I have 4 quarts of their MTL sitting out in my garage waiting to be installed in my 5600 - and I used their Water Wetter regularly in my '91 truck - they have good stuff, but I'm doubtful as to it's effectiveness in our little test - fact is, it might well remove enough accumulated junk from 300,000 miles of operation to REALLY start using oil!
JEEZE - my daughter would KILL me if that happened...
JEEZE - my daughter would KILL me if that happened...
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Turbo Tim 1
TDR MEMBER
Now you're in a dilema Gary!
Conduct this test to prove that STP is the answer and possibly ruin years of sludge build-up (sealant) and make the daughter
or just let it go, believe what you believe and leave Hohn to believe what he believes. I would like to see what happens, especially in typical Gary report format!
Conduct this test to prove that STP is the answer and possibly ruin years of sludge build-up (sealant) and make the daughter
or just let it go, believe what you believe and leave Hohn to believe what he believes. I would like to see what happens, especially in typical Gary report format!Well, Justin, in my opinion, is at a distinct disadvantage here. The Redline is really good stuff, but NOT practical in this type application - synthetic lube is absolutely the WORSE lube to apply to an old worn engine due to the fact it DOES dislodge and remove the very sort of crud that is keeping some of those engines on the road - and then causes MORE oil consumption than when using the dino oil, not less - not to mention the added tendency of synthetics to shrink gaskets and seals, adding to oil loss in older engines that have previously used only dino lubes...
In my opinion, the greatest problem with complaints about STP and sludge, is the fact that many users resort to the STP only after piling up many 10's of thousands of miles, and apply it to an already worn out engine in hopes of gaining a bit more mileage out of it, just as *I* am with my daughter's Acura.
THEN, when they finally DO tear down the engine, and naturally find the inevitable crud at various spots inside the engine, they blame the STP rather than the high mileage on the engine before the STP was even applied.
In my case, I always STARTED my STP use with a clean and newly broken in engine and never experienced any of the sludge complained about here - and suggesting my experience was due to the "cleaning effect" of diesel fuel totally ignores the ALSO extremely low percentage of diesel fuel in my oil sample analysis...
Oh, I'll do the "test", and I'll win, been there and done that - not because there's anything wrong with the Redline, but because THIS is not a proper or equitable test of it's use as compared to STP.
Justin, I know you will read this - if you still want to proceed, I'm willing and prepared - but if you want to reconsider, do so now before I invest in the Redline stuff - I really think this is an unfair test of the redline lube - but no harm, no foul whatever you decide...
In my opinion, the greatest problem with complaints about STP and sludge, is the fact that many users resort to the STP only after piling up many 10's of thousands of miles, and apply it to an already worn out engine in hopes of gaining a bit more mileage out of it, just as *I* am with my daughter's Acura.
THEN, when they finally DO tear down the engine, and naturally find the inevitable crud at various spots inside the engine, they blame the STP rather than the high mileage on the engine before the STP was even applied.
In my case, I always STARTED my STP use with a clean and newly broken in engine and never experienced any of the sludge complained about here - and suggesting my experience was due to the "cleaning effect" of diesel fuel totally ignores the ALSO extremely low percentage of diesel fuel in my oil sample analysis...
Oh, I'll do the "test", and I'll win, been there and done that - not because there's anything wrong with the Redline, but because THIS is not a proper or equitable test of it's use as compared to STP.
Justin, I know you will read this - if you still want to proceed, I'm willing and prepared - but if you want to reconsider, do so now before I invest in the Redline stuff - I really think this is an unfair test of the redline lube - but no harm, no foul whatever you decide...
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amsoilman
Staff Alumni
Many opinions on this subject, but the FACT is: Any good engine oil that will meet the Manufactures requirements, does not need or require any aftermarket additives! Any reputable oil Company must run an extensive battery of tests to show that a given oil meets the API standards for wear, oxidation, corrosion protection and many other factors. They literally spend a MINIMUM of 45- 50,000 Dollars and a considerable amount of time for these tests for a SINGLE oil!
Most all Oil companies do not recommend adding other additives to their oils, as they Can upset the delicate balance of ingredients in modern engine motor oils.
HOWEVER, everyone here has a "Choice" based on "Whatever", so make your own choices as you will. For me, I would never add any additive to ANY oil if it were going in a perfectly mechanically sound engine. And that's my opinion!
My . 02
Wayne
amsoilman
Most all Oil companies do not recommend adding other additives to their oils, as they Can upset the delicate balance of ingredients in modern engine motor oils.
HOWEVER, everyone here has a "Choice" based on "Whatever", so make your own choices as you will. For me, I would never add any additive to ANY oil if it were going in a perfectly mechanically sound engine. And that's my opinion!
My . 02
Wayne
amsoilman
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Valid points-- except you'll note I was referring to the cleaning effects of diesel-rated OIL, NOT DIESEL FUEL
There's a good chance you WOULD win the test. My point here was not to win but to get you to try Redline, which we've concluded might not be such a good idea in this particular app.
Since I opened my yapper and told you I would pay for the oil change if your test proved it, i am obligated. If you elect not to conduct the test, then I and my checkbook thank you
Justin
There's a good chance you WOULD win the test. My point here was not to win but to get you to try Redline, which we've concluded might not be such a good idea in this particular app.
Since I opened my yapper and told you I would pay for the oil change if your test proved it, i am obligated. If you elect not to conduct the test, then I and my checkbook thank you
Justin
NO sweat - I've opened MY "yapper" at the wrong time myself, then regretted it later. As I've pointed out, the Redline is good stuff, distributed over across the bay from me in Benicia.
A far better test of the redline would be to take 2 NEW vehicles, and use Redline in one after break-in - and good grade of dino oil with STP added after break-in in the other, and then see the effects of wear over the long haul - but that would take a long time, and ignores the cost difference of the 2 setups, unless increased longevity of the Redline oil made up the difference - and *I* wouldn't want to gamble either way!
So we'll scratch the test - and *I* am just as glad to not be applying synthetic to so old a high-milage engine - it would be asking for trouble...
Cheers...
A far better test of the redline would be to take 2 NEW vehicles, and use Redline in one after break-in - and good grade of dino oil with STP added after break-in in the other, and then see the effects of wear over the long haul - but that would take a long time, and ignores the cost difference of the 2 setups, unless increased longevity of the Redline oil made up the difference - and *I* wouldn't want to gamble either way!
So we'll scratch the test - and *I* am just as glad to not be applying synthetic to so old a high-milage engine - it would be asking for trouble...
Cheers...
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
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Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
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What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
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