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Gas $1.99 Deisel $3.18 What the???
- Thread starter JDiepstra
- Start Date
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I yell and scream everytime get fuel and see the huge spread between diesel and gas.
2. 00 gas--3. 25 diesel.
I think its because the gas people out number us and speak up about it.
Stations are selling gas near cost and are making there money on us
I feel like a sap now at every fill up.
2. 00 gas--3. 25 diesel.
I think its because the gas people out number us and speak up about it.
Stations are selling gas near cost and are making there money on us
I feel like a sap now at every fill up.
About 2 weeks ago all the local stations around here Plymouth, Novi, South Lyon etc were $3. 49 or more while just 20 miles or so away in the Clinton area there were a few stations under $3 It is the heating oil season, but that doesn't explain the 50 cents difference between stations. It pays to shop around. Makes one consider an aux tank to take advantage of the huge price differentials.
I see a logical separation between gas and diesel prices. Their markets are entirely different. A far higher percentage of diesel fuel is consumed by professionals who drive consistent miles, generally. Gas drivers (primarily individual car owners) can vary their driving habits a lot easier. As a result, there is more potential for wider market fluctuation. Given the relatively consistent diesel market, supply is easily matched to demand, and so it just seems that we see less of the market fluctuation. The fact is, they still only refine so much diesel, and we still use about the same amount, so its probably not going to drastically fluctuate like gas did. That is the optimistic supply/demand model. The pessimistic model says that diesel users, for the aforementioned reasons, continue to use consistently regardless of price. I would add "within reason", but what happened this past summer does not qualify, and there were still trucks on the road.
Perhaps if more consumer vehicles begin to use diesel fuel, the market will become more competitive, or something like that. I don't know, I'm no economist.
Perhaps if more consumer vehicles begin to use diesel fuel, the market will become more competitive, or something like that. I don't know, I'm no economist.
The advent of ULSD had a significant role in the cost of diesel vs gas. First, the main reason diesel was less prior to ULSD was that diesel required less refining. That bridge has been gapped with the advent of ULSD and the additional refining required to remove the sulfer. Keep in mind, as far as raw product is concerned, even when diesel was less than gas, one gallon of oil results in 20% less diesel than gasoline (which is still the case).
The second aspect is the world market. ULSD can now be blended to meet the European fuel requirements (10ppm sulfer), and we now EXPORT several barges a day of refined diesel. With the advent of ULSD our refined diesel truly became a world commodity, and will be priced accordingly.
The other aspec that is likely having a role in diesel prices is that we are now upon the home heating season, and diesel competes directly with home heating oil. Gasoline does not have the same market forces.
The second aspect is the world market. ULSD can now be blended to meet the European fuel requirements (10ppm sulfer), and we now EXPORT several barges a day of refined diesel. With the advent of ULSD our refined diesel truly became a world commodity, and will be priced accordingly.
The other aspec that is likely having a role in diesel prices is that we are now upon the home heating season, and diesel competes directly with home heating oil. Gasoline does not have the same market forces.
Last edited:
Good info Brian.
So why is it then that LSD or 20 Bio/LSD costs the same as ULSD in my area?
Only educated guesses on my part, but as far as LSD is concerned, there is only so much production of LSD for mostly off highway use these days, if it's not priced with the ULSD market then supply would become an issue.
On LSD/B20 blend, 80% of the product is still priced at dino fuel prices, then you still have to deal with the additional costs of blending the bio mix.
On LSD/B20 blend, 80% of the product is still priced at dino fuel prices, then you still have to deal with the additional costs of blending the bio mix.
Last edited:
BigPapa
TDR MEMBER
Here's some numbers, just FYI:
Demand:
Demand for Gas is more than DOUBLE that of Diesel.
Gas demand is down 2. 9%
Diesel demand is down 6. 0%
Stocks:
Gas - Up 1%
Diesel - Down 5. 6%
We import:
87. 21 % more Gas than we export
We export:
83. 03% more Diesel than we import
Imports:
Gas - Down 8. 05%
Diesel - Down 44. 85%
Exports:
Gas - Up 17. 12%
Diesel - Up 62. 97%
Prices:
Gas - down 25. 54%
Diesel - down 6. 96%
So in summary:
Gas: Demand down 2. 9%, stocks up 1%, imports down 8. 05%, exports up 17. 12%, we import a little less than 8:1, price down 25. 54%
Diesel: Demand down 6%, stocks down 5. 6%, imports down 44. 85%, exports up 62. 97%, we export a little over 8:1, price down 6. 96%
The ups/downs are over the same time 1 year ago.
'splain it to me LUCY!
Scott
Demand:
Demand for Gas is more than DOUBLE that of Diesel.
Gas demand is down 2. 9%
Diesel demand is down 6. 0%
Stocks:
Gas - Up 1%
Diesel - Down 5. 6%
We import:
87. 21 % more Gas than we export
We export:
83. 03% more Diesel than we import
Imports:
Gas - Down 8. 05%
Diesel - Down 44. 85%
Exports:
Gas - Up 17. 12%
Diesel - Up 62. 97%
Prices:
Gas - down 25. 54%
Diesel - down 6. 96%
So in summary:
Gas: Demand down 2. 9%, stocks up 1%, imports down 8. 05%, exports up 17. 12%, we import a little less than 8:1, price down 25. 54%
Diesel: Demand down 6%, stocks down 5. 6%, imports down 44. 85%, exports up 62. 97%, we export a little over 8:1, price down 6. 96%
The ups/downs are over the same time 1 year ago.
'splain it to me LUCY!
Scott
Last edited:
BigPapa
TDR MEMBER
My local fuel distributor has LSD and ULSD. The LSD he has is not necessarily 500ppm, but it did test higher than 15ppm and therefore is sold to him cheaper than ULSD. He sells a lot more LSD than ULSD.
Scott
Monday, June 2, 2008 14:47 PDT
Why is diesel even more expensive than gas?
A reader wonders: Enough with the high price of gas already -- can you explain why diesel is even more expensive? Since my son had asked me exactly the same question yesterday, when he noticed that diesel prices were a full dollar-a-gallon more ouchy than the $4. 23-a-gallon regular unleaded price tag I was exclaiming about, I decided to take a stab at it.
There are two aspects of the high price of diesel that are confusing people. The first is that diesel is cheaper to make out of crude oil than gasoline -- essentially, it is less refined -- and so, theoretically, it should be cheaper at the pump. The second is that the normal historical pattern in which diesel is more expensive than gasoline in the winter (because diesel is very similar to heating oil, which is in high demand in the winter) and less expensive in the summer, has been upset for a couple of years. Winter is long over, but diesel prices are continuing to climb.
Felix Salmon approached this question a couple of months ago, and helpfully located the Energy Information Administration's take on the subject:
Until several years ago, the average price of diesel fuel was usually lower than the average price of gasoline. In some winters when the demand for distillate heating oil was high, the price of diesel fuel rose above the gasoline price. Since September 2004, the price of diesel fuel has been generally higher than the price of regular gasoline all year round for several reasons. Worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils has been increasing steadily, with strong demand in China, Europe, and the U. S. , putting more pressure on the tight global refining capacity. In the U. S. , the transition to low-sulfur diesel fuel has affected diesel fuel production and distribution costs. Also, the Federal excise tax on diesel fuel is 6 cents higher per gallon (24. 4 cents per gallon) than the tax on gasoline.
Worldwide demand seems to be the clincher. For various reasons, the overseas hunger for diesel fuel is growing more vigorously than for gasoline. Factcheck.org, the Annenberg Public Policy Center project more often associated with acting as a watchdog against dubious political assertions, provides an authoritative analysis.
Some key points:
"According to the European Union's most recent economic report, diesel autos accounted for 53. 3 percent of all new registrations in 2007, a huge increase from the 13. 8 percent share recorded in 1990. That's several million new diesel-consuming vehicles every year. "
"Diesel accounts for more than 30 percent of new vehicles sold in India and is expected to hit 50 percent by 2010. "
"In China especially, diesel consumption has been soaring as the economy booms. The country also is reported to be importing diesel fuel for stockpiling, to avoid any interruptions in power during the Olympics in August. Energy traders also say they foresee even more demand for diesel fuel in China to run heavy equipment and emergency generators in the wake of the recent earthquake. "
But the most interesting part of Factcheck.org's analysis is not its explanation of why diesel prices are relatively high, but its assertion that gas prices are relatively low.
As gasoline prices have risen in the United States, many Americans have responded by cutting back their consumption. I've noted several times such data points as the astonishing slump in miles driven, the plummeting price of used SUVs, and the fact that the Toyota Prius is now the ninth best-selling car in the United States. Paradoxically, by driving less, and therefore reducing gasoline demand, Americans have prevented the price of gasoline from rising as high as it normally would this time of year. I made fun a couple of weeks ago of the Bureau of Labor Statistics for claiming that, after seasonal adjustment, gas prices fell in April, when anyone who was actually buying gas knew that prices were still rising. But I was unfair. If American drivers hadn't cut back on their consumption, the price would have risen much more dramatically.
Which would make the price of gasoline right now much closer to the current price of diesel.
In comparison to gasoline, cutting back on diesel consumption isn't so easy in the United States, where diesel passenger cars are still only a tiny proportion of the overall fleet. Instead, diesel is built into the nuts-and-bolts infrastructure of the industrial economy. Yes, many small, independent trucking companies are going out of business, but goods still need to be shipped across the country. In other words: The demand for gasoline has recently been proven to be "elastic" -- but demand for diesel, so far, is resolutely "inelastic. "
So next time we notice that diesel prices are a dollar more a gallon than gas prices, instead of wondering why diesel is so expensive, maybe instead we should breathe a sigh of relief, and thank heaven that gas is still so cheap.
from: Why is diesel even more expensive than gas? - How the World Works - Salon.com
Why is diesel even more expensive than gas?
A reader wonders: Enough with the high price of gas already -- can you explain why diesel is even more expensive? Since my son had asked me exactly the same question yesterday, when he noticed that diesel prices were a full dollar-a-gallon more ouchy than the $4. 23-a-gallon regular unleaded price tag I was exclaiming about, I decided to take a stab at it.
There are two aspects of the high price of diesel that are confusing people. The first is that diesel is cheaper to make out of crude oil than gasoline -- essentially, it is less refined -- and so, theoretically, it should be cheaper at the pump. The second is that the normal historical pattern in which diesel is more expensive than gasoline in the winter (because diesel is very similar to heating oil, which is in high demand in the winter) and less expensive in the summer, has been upset for a couple of years. Winter is long over, but diesel prices are continuing to climb.
Felix Salmon approached this question a couple of months ago, and helpfully located the Energy Information Administration's take on the subject:
Until several years ago, the average price of diesel fuel was usually lower than the average price of gasoline. In some winters when the demand for distillate heating oil was high, the price of diesel fuel rose above the gasoline price. Since September 2004, the price of diesel fuel has been generally higher than the price of regular gasoline all year round for several reasons. Worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils has been increasing steadily, with strong demand in China, Europe, and the U. S. , putting more pressure on the tight global refining capacity. In the U. S. , the transition to low-sulfur diesel fuel has affected diesel fuel production and distribution costs. Also, the Federal excise tax on diesel fuel is 6 cents higher per gallon (24. 4 cents per gallon) than the tax on gasoline.
Worldwide demand seems to be the clincher. For various reasons, the overseas hunger for diesel fuel is growing more vigorously than for gasoline. Factcheck.org, the Annenberg Public Policy Center project more often associated with acting as a watchdog against dubious political assertions, provides an authoritative analysis.
Some key points:
"According to the European Union's most recent economic report, diesel autos accounted for 53. 3 percent of all new registrations in 2007, a huge increase from the 13. 8 percent share recorded in 1990. That's several million new diesel-consuming vehicles every year. "
"Diesel accounts for more than 30 percent of new vehicles sold in India and is expected to hit 50 percent by 2010. "
"In China especially, diesel consumption has been soaring as the economy booms. The country also is reported to be importing diesel fuel for stockpiling, to avoid any interruptions in power during the Olympics in August. Energy traders also say they foresee even more demand for diesel fuel in China to run heavy equipment and emergency generators in the wake of the recent earthquake. "
But the most interesting part of Factcheck.org's analysis is not its explanation of why diesel prices are relatively high, but its assertion that gas prices are relatively low.
As gasoline prices have risen in the United States, many Americans have responded by cutting back their consumption. I've noted several times such data points as the astonishing slump in miles driven, the plummeting price of used SUVs, and the fact that the Toyota Prius is now the ninth best-selling car in the United States. Paradoxically, by driving less, and therefore reducing gasoline demand, Americans have prevented the price of gasoline from rising as high as it normally would this time of year. I made fun a couple of weeks ago of the Bureau of Labor Statistics for claiming that, after seasonal adjustment, gas prices fell in April, when anyone who was actually buying gas knew that prices were still rising. But I was unfair. If American drivers hadn't cut back on their consumption, the price would have risen much more dramatically.
Which would make the price of gasoline right now much closer to the current price of diesel.
In comparison to gasoline, cutting back on diesel consumption isn't so easy in the United States, where diesel passenger cars are still only a tiny proportion of the overall fleet. Instead, diesel is built into the nuts-and-bolts infrastructure of the industrial economy. Yes, many small, independent trucking companies are going out of business, but goods still need to be shipped across the country. In other words: The demand for gasoline has recently been proven to be "elastic" -- but demand for diesel, so far, is resolutely "inelastic. "
So next time we notice that diesel prices are a dollar more a gallon than gas prices, instead of wondering why diesel is so expensive, maybe instead we should breathe a sigh of relief, and thank heaven that gas is still so cheap.
from: Why is diesel even more expensive than gas? - How the World Works - Salon.com
Last edited:
Vaughn MacKenzie
TDR MEMBER
Oil demands by China and India are cooling off, so I don't think we can blame the discrepancy on that so much. But it does make sense these danged oil companies will export more diesel since demand has gone down here, since they'll get a better price elsewhere.
I did this little comparison of US average prices a year ago and today:
1 Year Ago
Gas- $3. 101
Diesel- $3. 446
Diesel was $0. 345 higher
TODAY
Gas- $2. 213
Diesel- $3. 092
Diesel is now $0. 879 higher- the gas/diesel gap has widened by 53. 4 cents per gallon in the last year
Vaughn
I did this little comparison of US average prices a year ago and today:
1 Year Ago
Gas- $3. 101
Diesel- $3. 446
Diesel was $0. 345 higher
TODAY
Gas- $2. 213
Diesel- $3. 092
Diesel is now $0. 879 higher- the gas/diesel gap has widened by 53. 4 cents per gallon in the last year
Vaughn
I bet if you were to go back 2 years, then 3, 4,5 we would remember when diesel was much cheaper than gas!
BigPapa
TDR MEMBER
Actually, looking at national average prices for the month of October for each year since 1994, here's the numbers:
1994 - same
1995 - diesel . 01 more than gas
1996 - . 13 more
1997 - . 03 less
1998 - . 02 more
1999 - . 03 less
2000 - . 12 more
2001 - . 07 less
2002 - . 02 more
2003 - . 09 less
2004 - . 19 more
2005 - . 17 more
2006 - . 21 more
2007 - . 29 more
2008 - . 10 more
I would have thought it would be much more also. These numbers came from the Dept. of Energy website. The cheapest diesel was in 1998 at $1. 04. I can remember paying less than $1. 00 once since I bought my truck in 2001. Right now in Middle Tennessee diesel is over $1. 00 more than gas.
Scott
BigPapa
TDR MEMBER
This is for June, same years:
1994 - Diesel . 02 more than gas
1995 - . 07 less
1996 - . 02 less
1997 - . 01 less
1998 - . 01 less
1999 - . 05 less
2000 - . 21 less
2001 - . 23 less
2002 - . 08 less
2003 - . 07 less
2004 - . 24 less
2005 - . 07 more
2006 - even
2007 - . 26 less
2008 - . 66 more
Looks a little better.
Scott
1994 - Diesel . 02 more than gas
1995 - . 07 less
1996 - . 02 less
1997 - . 01 less
1998 - . 01 less
1999 - . 05 less
2000 - . 21 less
2001 - . 23 less
2002 - . 08 less
2003 - . 07 less
2004 - . 24 less
2005 - . 07 more
2006 - even
2007 - . 26 less
2008 - . 66 more
Looks a little better.
Scott
As we've seen pick any one month and the results will vary widely. Interesting how the numbers can be manipulated. Here is the EIA data for the retail price per gallon of regular gas and on-highway diesel since 1995:
1995 gas $1. 15 diesel $1. 11 -- Diesel 4 cents less
1996 gas $1. 23 diesel $1. 24 -- Diesel 1 cent more
1997 gas $1. 23 diesel $1. 20 -- Diesel 3 cents less
1998 gas $1. 06 diesel $1. 04 -- Diesel 2 cents less
1999 gas $1. 17 diesel $1. 12 -- Diesel 5 cents less
2000 gas $1. 51 diesel $1. 49 -- Diesel 2 cents less
2001 gas $1. 46 diesel $1. 40 -- Diesel 6 cents less
2002 gas $1. 36 diesel $1. 32 -- Diesel 4 cents less
2003 gas $1. 59 diesel $1. 51 -- Diesel 8 cents less
2004 gas $1. 88 diesel $1. 81 -- Diesel 7 cents less
2005 gas $2. 30 diesel $2. 40 -- Diesel 10 cents more
2006 gas $2. 59 diesel $2. 71 -- Diesel 12 cents more
2007 gas $2. 80 diesel $2. 89 -- Diesel 9 cents more
Anyhow it shows since 1995 diesel has been only slightly cheaper on average than regular gas until the last few years. 2008 will look really ugly.
1995 gas $1. 15 diesel $1. 11 -- Diesel 4 cents less
1996 gas $1. 23 diesel $1. 24 -- Diesel 1 cent more
1997 gas $1. 23 diesel $1. 20 -- Diesel 3 cents less
1998 gas $1. 06 diesel $1. 04 -- Diesel 2 cents less
1999 gas $1. 17 diesel $1. 12 -- Diesel 5 cents less
2000 gas $1. 51 diesel $1. 49 -- Diesel 2 cents less
2001 gas $1. 46 diesel $1. 40 -- Diesel 6 cents less
2002 gas $1. 36 diesel $1. 32 -- Diesel 4 cents less
2003 gas $1. 59 diesel $1. 51 -- Diesel 8 cents less
2004 gas $1. 88 diesel $1. 81 -- Diesel 7 cents less
2005 gas $2. 30 diesel $2. 40 -- Diesel 10 cents more
2006 gas $2. 59 diesel $2. 71 -- Diesel 12 cents more
2007 gas $2. 80 diesel $2. 89 -- Diesel 9 cents more
Anyhow it shows since 1995 diesel has been only slightly cheaper on average than regular gas until the last few years. 2008 will look really ugly.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
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Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
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What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
