Gauges?

[bob257]

If you're not making any chip changes to the engine etc, is it important to have gauges, other than the factory ones, to monitor things like exhaust temperatures? I tow about three times a year. It's a fifth wheel that's 11,900 dry. I don't tow with tanks full other than propane.

 

[HBarlow]

An unmolested OEM engine will take care of itself with no gauges necessary. You can run a factory stock Cummins at redline with a heavy load in tow all day, over mountains, and down the other side, without harm. The engine cooling temp and exhaust gas temps will remain within design tolerances and cause no harm.

If you add a magic black box or injectors, you absolutely need gauges.

 

[CDonaldson]

When I bought my 2006 I asked the same question as you about gauges. I generally got the same answers as HBarlow has given you from several replies. I decided to go with a few gauges, fuel press, boost, and egts anyway. I am SO GLAD I decided to install those gauges. I tow more that you suggest you will be towing but I tow at weights like you have and some higher, the first thing I learned was just how high our egts DO get, and regardless of whether our engine management is supposedly going to maintain some preset tollerances or not I got my eyes opened to just how high they can go. Take the time to read some threads and learn about things and you too will decide to install some gauges. They will help you to decide about gearing down at the correct timing before those temps take a toll on your engine. The gauges are certainly a cheap insurance vrs a costly rebuild or crate engine.





CD

 

[jwinnie]

Cdonaldson,

Are you saying that your '06 was showing excessive egts when it was stock? Or it just got hotter than you were comfortable with?



Bob257,

If I had a new 2010 truck with plenty of warranty left, was leaving it bone stock and pulling well within the tow rating, I would not worry about it too much.

Gauges are really good at raising red flags at some dealers with regards to warranty. I'm going to agree with Hbarlow.

But..... Cdonaldson correct in suggesting that you do some research make a well informed decision.



Best of luck with your new truck!

 

[Jim W]

When I first bought my truck, I just installed three gauges Boost, Egt's, and Transmission Temperature. I like the idea of gauges instead of idiot lights. When an idiot light comes on it is to late, it is after the fact. I also felt that I need a base line to understand the engine parameters, if I want to add a programmer to the truck. I was not sure if I would or not, but thought that a base line would be great to work from. After towing a 5er for the camping season and driving around for a year. The BUG bit and I had to add a programmer to the truck.



As other say no, you do not need them but it is nice to know what is going on with the engine as it is operating.



Jim W.

 

[CDonaldson]

@jwinnie - Number I was not comfortable with, but I will say that the 2006's seemed to run hotter than what others were accustomed to with previous year models. There were MORE 2006/2007's that toasted #6 than other year models. The 2006's began a new CAN BUS and some other stuff that led to the 2007-1/2 6. 7's. Programming in the 2006/2007's IS different, all the programmer manufacturers will tell you that also. I live at altitude, tow a lot, steep grades, etc, so I experience higher egt's in that environment. If I had not had gauges I would have never known about those higher EGT's prob would have toasted my engine too. Of course, we do have a warranty for 100K, but who knows at what mileage of repeated high temps would the engine have given up the ghost??





I had problems with the rail relief valve beginning at 1K miles, continued regularly until 12K miles, and the valve was finally replaced by my dealer, have never had that code again. Every time I took my truck to them, they could not find the problem causing the code, they would just erase the code and send me on my way. They fed me some bs about starting the truck immediately when I turned on the key, the reason I was getting the code was that I was waiting too long to start my truck. Well, I bought my truck in Feb, was waiting on the grid heater . . didn't make sense to me ??? Then, the problem persisted into good weather and I was starting it immediately when inserting the key . . and the best part is that it would throw the code when driving around. I have both the fuel pressure and rail pressure gauges, installed the fuel pressure gauge right after I bought my truck, the rail pressure gauge later on when they came out. My gauges actually helped diagnose the problem, I noticed the fuel pressure and rail pressure drop, then the code would throw. After I told them that, they tested my fuel pump, found no problem with it so they replaced the rail pressure valve.



I bet if I had not had the gauges to be able to see it happening, I'd STILL be playing the dealership game without any results.







I am a firm believer in guages, most all of the factory gauges are glorified idiot lights and worthless for the most part, the damage is done by the time you get an idiot light. IF a diesel didn't need the kind of gauges we install from the aftermarket, then the big rigs would not have them either. When you work a truck and use it like a truck and it's not just a pavement queen, you need the best information you can get.







CD

 

[HBarlow]

I am also an absolute believer in the value of gauges. All three of my Dodges have had gauges installed.

I didn't stress that in my first reply because the op didn't ask if gauges were helpful, he simply asked if they were necessary. They aren't necessary but as others have stated, they are very valuable for monitoring conditions and they will absolutely allow you to detect and understand many problems that can occur.

In my experience, some dealer service departments are staffed by people who know essentially nothing about Cummins turbodiesel engines. Some will tell owners the dumbest things we've ever heard, reset their codes and pretend nothing was wrong, try to convince owners their trucks are running fine, or replace the wrong parts. Gauges will often allow the owner to know more than the dealer service techs and convince them when their is a genuine problem.

I recommend EGT, Boost, and automatic transmission fluid temperature gauges as a minimum and some consider fuel pressure gauges important.

 

[Shadrach]

I also like gauges as I like to know what is going on. When I rebuilt the engine in my 03 I wanted to know more than the stock gauges told me so I added "some". On my first rip out I was watching them too much and was worried. My mechanic buddy told me to "just drive it-it's stock and will handle it ". I think it's nice to know what temps it's running at but don't be alarmed. Once you what is normal then you will know if something is wrong. As Jwinnie said "Gauges are really good at raising red flags at some dealers ... " Sometimes they will assume you have done something( as in performance mods ) when they see gauges. Also thieves can think the same. Here is what I did. The ones on the pillar are a little hard to read the numbers when you have bifocals :-laf I had to learn where the needle was rather than look at the numbers. Shadrach



<a href="http://s447.photobucket.com/albums/qq195/shadrach1984/03%20CTD%20Rebuild/?action=view&amp;current=DSCN0357.jpg" target="_blank">#ad
</a>

 

[bheiting]

I would not pull a fifth wheel without the gauges listed in the TDR Buyers Guide. I like the three gauge dash top pod as shown above. It keeps them in your line of sight. One I would install whether or not you tow is a fuel pressure gauge connected between the fuel filter and the injection pump. It will let you know immediately if your very expensive injection system is being starved for fuel. Who knows if your last fill up was from the bottom of a dirty tank at the refinery? I called the guys at Genos, told them the gauges I wanted and they sent me all the necessary tubing, wiring, fittings, and instructions.

 

[madmanmanick]

I would at a minimum put in 3 gauges, EGT(to be able to determine if the turbo is cool enough to shut off the engine, Transmission, to know if you need to back down when towing, and fuel pressure so that you can determine if your lift pump has failed. Here are some photos of what I did. On the A-pillar I have Transmission temp, boost pressure, and rear diff. On the dash cluster I have EGT Pre-Turbo, Fuel Pressure, and EGT Post-Turbo.

 

[dpotter]

I just put in an Autometer boost & pyro and my fuel milage has gone from 17. 5 to 19. 25 mpg just watching the pyro and backing off the throttle a little. An added benefit to knowing what is going on under the hood. As has been said, if you know what normal is, you can spot a problem right away. Don't drive without at least boost & pyro.

 

[Shadrach]

My 3 dash gauges are pryo, boost and fuel pressure. The pillar ones are coolant temp , oil pressure and air pressure. I have a stick so I didn't want a trans temp gauge, and an on board air system. I wanted "real" oil pressure and coolant temp gauges. My truck is a Canadian model ( as am I ) so we have different faces on our gauges. I think it shows the difference in the owners manual. Anyway I like gauges and stopped at six this time :-laf If I was only going to run three I would mount them on the dash as it is in your line of vision. Shadrach

 

[JMarketos]

Ahh... the subject of gauges brings many passionate responses.
I'll x2 most of the above. I have a tuner in mine, but run it at stock or econo setting (the trans & TC are stock. ). The gauges are still useful to keep a definitive eye on things. They can also act as a good diagnostic tool. Also as someone else mentioned above, once you learn "normal" operating of gauges, you can often spot something abnormal very early on, which can help in a variety of ways. One of the biggest surprises I had after installing my gauges, was to learn that the rear end can reach 180F or hotter pretty easily when towing in high outside temps. Good reason to keep the rear end oil changed.

Also another thing I didn't see mentioned above, sorry if it's there and I just overlooked it... Not sure if your new model year truck is same, but some of the stock "gauges" on older trucks really aren't gauges at all. For instance on mine, the Volt meter and the oil pressure gauge don't actually indicate the quantities on their face. Rather, they indicate what the computer tells them to, which may not be anything close to what the actual quantity really is. Definitely boost and EGT if you tow. Then you'll have "the disease" and end up getting some others. If your stock instrument cluster still has the "fake" gauges like mine, then I'd recommend also oil pressure and Volts gauge. Enjoy!

 

[Kry226]

I have EGT, trans temp, boost, and fuel pressure on my stock 04 and I am very glad I have them, but wish I had done them earlier. Granted, it's not a 2010 truck, but the principles are the same.



This past week I was towing a travel trailer at 15K gross (truck and trailer) and had no problems at all hitting 1,200 degrees with regularity on the EGT in the Pennsylvania mountains. I backed off and downshifted (hit Tow/Haul, actually) without trying to push it higher, which I am sure I could have done. Depending on who you talk to, 1,200 degrees is not necessarily something to be feared, but a new engine can jack up a billfold pretty good, so I eased off. Honestly, I learned a lot from my gauges last week.



Now, I reside with the "If it's a diesel, it needs gauges," crowd.