Gave up on the 6.7 diesel now back to gasoline

[DMosby]

Finally decided that I was not going to be able to afford this 2008 RAM 2500 once it was out of warranty and I moved to a gasoline powered RAM 1500.



Hated to bail out of the rig at just 20,000 miles as I really thought I would have it 10 or 15 years when I made the purchase. The truck was great when I was driving it but not when in the shop getting a temporary repair. It had new turbo at 3500 miles, then EGR replaced at 5K, then O2 and exhaust wrap around 15K. Finally at 20 K another check engine light and trip to dealer. After 4 days at the dealer for diagnosis, parts, and EGR cleaning I was only 30 minutes out, not even home yet, and the check engine light was back.



Maybe if someone like SAG2 was working next door he could convince me that a permanent fix would show up before the warranty was out. But I figured that once out of warranty I would be paying for EGR and turbo replacements on my own and way too often. I had a service guy in Portland tell me that the trip across the coast range from Portland to beach wasn't working it hard enough. Latest service guy just last week said that EGR on diesels doesn't work and they just keep cleaning them. I'm sure that many will disagree with his statement but if driving on the slow sections of west coast highway 101 where I am I think this is true.

 

[AH64ID]

I would have ditched the emissions junk and kept the diesel.

 

[Whiteranch04]

Dont forget the junky transmission nv5600 or the auto that goes out at 120k, the front driveshaft the same, the ffulltime front hubs that let go Dodge diesel never agin for me, gasoline chevy or ford wherever there is a dealership, no dodge dealer around her or 100 miles one way now since they killed off all of the lil guys who still gave a dang about the customer and actually fixing the truck. I just bought a 5 inch exhaust and Smarty and delete kit and it runs like the 1th day i got it actually better, all of these 6. 7 should be in a class action lemon law suit and refund money for a failed system they keep selling to the public, I dont blame you a bit for jumping off that lemon, many other have done the same... ... .

 

[DMosby]

I certainly considered ditching EGR & DPF but did not due to:
1) No warranty. I am not willing to void warranty so that means I would have to wait until warranty expires to do delete. Then I'm paying lots of money to have this done for me, as I'm not going to do it myself. And at this point I'm not sure how much trust I would have in the turbo after having the soot issues until delete was done.
2) Possibility that I would have to undergo emissions testing at some point.
3) As an engineer I really hate the idea of having to buy one computer to lie to the engine computer which is complex, needed to keep the truck running, and for which I don't have commented source code. If Dodge/Cummins would admit that this doesn't work and remove it and reprogram their computer I'd do it in an instant.
4) No guarantee that it will work and no one single person or company responsible for making it work right. It might be great if you are a knowledgeable and experienced do-it-yourself mechanic. I want the truck to be as reliable as possible. If the check engine light is on or it is not running properly I want to be able to take it to a mechanic that knows what he is doing and can fix it. With a delete I think that it means that some local 4WD shop is going to be on the phone with someone that made a tuner trying to figure out what is going wrong. I'm sure lots of people will have trouble free deletes but I wasn't willing to spend over $1000 and just hope that it all works.

Read the "tale of woe" on page 34 of issue 72 of the TDR (May/June/July). If I found a shop in Portland to do the delete for me they would be an hour and a half away. I'm not willing to sign up for the potential problems. I'm envious of those driving a trouble free deleted 6. 7 engine. I'm sure it is really great. If Dodge would remove the EGR & DPF and stand behind it I would still be driving the truck.

 

[AH64ID]

The 6. 7 has never been offered with the 6. 7, not sure what you mean by that?

 

[amsoilman]

Have a co-worker, which some of you know as "Heber Ram" who has the 6. 7 in a 2007 Dodge. He had numerous DPF/EGR problems, then finally he removed the DPF and the EGR, and his truck has never ran so much better... ..... His mileage even increased by 4 MPG! He hasn't had ANY problems in the past three years.

 

[CBlack]

Everyone I know with the 6. 7 has said it has issues WITH the emissions crap in tact.

The guys who delete said crap have ZERO issues and love their truck.

 

[Simplysmn]

I m on my 2nd 6. 7 Never had any troubles with the first with 92,000 in less then 3 n 1/2 yr's n now I have a 2011 n it run's just as good if not better and it will stay stock . Maybe it's the way I drive it {hard) but what ever I am doing I am going to stay that way .

 

[Cosmo]

How do you drive your truck? The EGR system is an abomination, but it's not a Dodge thing, it's a diesel thing. Soot injected into the intake? If you take your intake off, you'll see about 1/8" thick carbon buildup - in the intake, in the MAP/IAT sensor, etc. etc. etc.

How often do you use your exhaust brake? If you don't use it often, it tends to carbon up.


The Cummins is a medium duty engine stuffed into a pickup and choked by the EPA. They run the best when they're being worked hard, and they act up if they're not worked enough.


I think you're confused as to how the deletes and programmer work. When you remove the EGR and DPF, you install block off plates and a pipe, respectively. The programmer doesn't fool the ECM, it loads altered software, effectively turning off the computer's desire to turn on/run the EGR and to regen the DPF.

Troubleshooting problems is just as when the truck left the factory, the ECM still runs (most of) its diagnostics.

I can understand not wanting to alter the emissions equipment, but if you don't have emissions testing it's the obvious way to fix what ails your truck.

If you have to worry about emissions testing, or you can't swallow the costs, use the exhaust brake 24/7 and run the snot out of it. You can clean your EGR cooler at home, so really by keeping the emissions equipment intact your only expense is going to be decreased fuel economy.

 

[Hoefler]

In my 08, I had the initial turbo problems. After they changed the turbo and flashed it, never had another engine problem for 60,000 miles. I traded for my 2010 at 62,000, miles. I have 18,000+ miles on my 2010 since I took delivery in September 2010, have never seen any indication that I am or will ever have a problem. This is a daily driver that pulls a trailer 95% of the time. My 16' enclosed trailer weighs in at 6,500 lbs is hooked up daily for work. The 16,000 lb fifth wheel gets pulled around 10,000 miles a year with at least one long trip of 3,000 miles or more. The key is to work it, use the exhaust brake 100% of the time the engine is running, and don't baby it!! You will actually get better fuel mileage if you run it a little harder. Builds more heat in the exhaust which translate into less re-gen cycles. Re-gen uses fuel that does not produce any mileage, just heat to burn off the soot.

 

[DBithell]

Dmosby: congratulations expect you'll sleep better at night. I would. It would be nice to just worry about what floor mats to buy & not all this other s t u f f. Turn the key & go, Not worry that you can't idle it to defrost the windows... . Thinking seriously of doing the same with my '08. I'm now around 43k & it has been an ordeal.

My fault - this pickup (in stock form) was intended ONLY for "moderate to high load in highway travel" constantly reminded of this in the TDR issues. There was a big sticker on the window saying such when I bought it. (not) So is perfect for a very SMALL portion of pickup buying consumers. The 5. 9's can haul a 300lb motocross bike in the bed & do burnouts - cool. The duty cycle as defined by the cummins engineers & egr/dpf is just to limited IMO.

QUESTION: did you trade it in? If so, did you get anything close to blue book??? We know the problems, the dealerships know the problems & they're not legally fixable.

 

[DMosby]

Hoefler:

You mean all I had to do was drive around with a 6,500 pound trailer all the time and my problems would be solved? Must have missed reading that requirement in the owners manual. (just kidding) I am in a coastal community with lots of twisty roads that require slow speeds. Straight stretches of more than a mile in length are far and few between. And I drive logging roads in the mountains behind my house where 10 MPH is fast and in most places 20 MPH impossible. I will admit that the truck is great if you drive it hard with a load. My problem with Dodge is they won't admit that it will not work for the fellow that just wants to idle around town at 20 MPH. If Dodge would have admitted the problem and told me that they would stand behind it until their was a fix I might still have it. I was not willing to let the warranty run out and pay for repairs myself.



DBithell: Here are the financial details for you.



This was a 2008 Dodge RAM 2500 Big Horn Edition Quad Cab short bed 4X4 6. 7 diesel purchased mid-September 2008. The final window sticker price was $50,285. The toal cash price, including registration and after a $4,50 rebate was $31,166.



I added a canopy and bed slide for $1700. Also added a really big and solid ARB front bumper, a 12K Warn winch, Westin side steps, heavy Fab fours back bumper, a brake controller, and boost & EGT gauges for another $5,400.



So my total into the truck once very nicely fixed up (for slow speed puttering around in the woods) was $38,766.



When it was back in the shop last week for the latest EGR fix I asked a sales guy for an estimate if they just bought it from me. They said $29,000.



This week in Portland, Oregon I visited a couple other dealers. One said $25K or maybe high 20's depending on what I wanted to buy. The next dealer said $30,000 for my truck and I went for it.



So I guess $30,000 as a trade in on my truck with all the accessories. It was really clean inside and out, no dings or scratches. The check engine light was on when I traded it in but it is under warranty so dealer will fix it.



So I guess the deal cost me $8,766 due to the accessories I added. I drove it 20,000 miles in 32 months. That works out to $274 a month. Not great for a cheap guy like me that thought he would be driving it for 15 years, but probably not a bad lease rate for a $30K rig.



I ended up getting a 2011 RAM 1500 SLT quad cab short bed 4X4 Big Horn edition with the 5. 7 Hemi. This had lots of the optional packages, everything but the integrated brake controller but that will be installed by the dealer in a couple weeks. Without the build sheet it is really hard to compare the cars and establish price but this one has about everything except the fancy navigation system and leather seats. Cost of the 1500 (including brake controller) after a $5,300 rebate was $32,830.



I have a canopy and bed slide on order so that will be another $2K. And at some point I'll add a winch. But I figure that for about $5K out of pocket I went from an '08 RAM 2500 to an '11 RAM 1500 which should meet my needs and I won't be replacing turbos and EGRs forever.

 

[LBARTLETT]

good luck with your new truck and let us know what kind of mileage you get

 

[Wertles]

Please give an honest comparison between the two after you get a few miles on her. It'll be a little tough comparing a 1500 to a 2500 but it will be nice to see how stout the 1500's are and how they hold up.

 

[jgillott]

Please give an honest comparison between the two after you get a few miles on her. It'll be a little tough comparing a 1500 to a 2500 but it will be nice to see how stout the 1500's are and how they hold up.

In addition to our diesels, I've had a 2010 Crew Cab 1500 4x4 for just over a year and 15K now. The highway ride and handling are very good. With the 3. 92 gears, mpg is in the 14's on short trips or with moderate weight in the bed. I can get a solid 19 mpg with it on the highway without a load.



I haven't towed heavy with it, but I've towed my enclosed atv trailer with it quite a bit without complaint. Snow traction with the traction control programming is very good. It even does quite well off road for as low to the ground that it is. All in all, I am impressed so far with this new Dodge 1500 package.

 

[DBithell]

DMosby: thanks for the detail very encouraging to me. never traded in a vehicle of this value before usually keep them until they're not very valuable. Think you got $5k worth of value for sure. once that 6. 7 out of warranty $5k would be gone in no time... .



Questions: when you initially bought 50k sticker, 4. 3k rebate, was the difference all discount or did you trade something in then too? also, were you the VH? radio guy - seem to remember when you 1st started having the 6. 7 issues you were wanting to put some radio stuff in it but weren't sure given the issues.



On my '08 have quite a bit invested, linex, leer, amp research steps, mag hytec rear cover, other little things but don't want to put another dime in it. Will continue to care for her until decide for sure, might even have the intestinal fortitude to endure 2 more years but sometimes enough is enough.

 

[DMosby]

I purchased with no trade in. The Dodge factory sticker listed a base price of $35,015 and then options took it up to final MSRP of $46,060. That included $6,100 for the 6. 7 Liter Cummins turbo diesel, the most expensive option. As an interesting note there was $995 listed for "Bluetec Ultra-Clean Diesel System". (Oh, if only I could have gotten it without that!) There was a dealer sticker with a few other options added that brought it up to that final window sticker of $50,285. 75.

The dealer listed it as a cash price of $35,555 and there was a factory rebate of $4,500 making the total cash price $31,055. The Oregon licensing paperwork brought it up to $31,166 which is what I paid the dealer - no trade in used.

I do not recall posting questions about installing radios, but it is quite possible that I did as I am an amateur radio operator. In the previous Jeep Cherokee I had a dual band (VHF/UHF) radio and also HF radio (Icom MK2G, UHF/VHF/HF). I had not yet gotten around to installing the radios in the RAM 2500 which turned out to be a lucky break. I am hoping to get them installed in the RAM 1500 soon. I plan to use mag mount antennas on the cab for the VHF/UHF. Unless I install a large bumper I am unsure what to do about the HF antenna.

 

[DMosby]

Minor correction to that last post. Forgot to add the $995 Blue-tech to the MSRP. The factory MSRP total after all options was $47,055 and then the dealer sticker had options bringing total window sticker price of $50,285. The cash price off the lot, after factory rebate and including state licensing was $31,166.

 

[AHarris]

You got a hell of a deal

 

[HBarlow]

DMosby,

Your report is a bit disappointing but you painted a clear picture of your operating environment, the problems you experienced, and the logical reason for your decision. I hate to see owners do that but cannot argue with your reasoning.

Your ownership experience with an otherwise excellent truck capable of outstanding performance of a wide range of work is a sad testimony to what a government run amuck can do. I would like to see the EPA building or buildings in DC bulldozed and their occupants marched into the Potomac River.