GCWR and RV shopping

[Sregorb]

Ok don't sugar coat anything here... .

Situation-looking to get a fifth wheel or travel trailer to have fun in on vacations and store stuff in when not in use (shed). Have decided on a toy-hauler-type style as being the direction we want to go and have several makes to choose from.

GVWR for vehicle is 8800lbs.

GCWR for vehicle is 20000lbs

max trailer weight is 13400lbs

Truck weight (fuel full) with passengers is 7500lbs certified yesterday.



The question- Am I then limited to purchasing a hitch/tongue weight combo of less than 1300lbs (wet weight)? or when you're pulling a trailer does the GVWR go out the window and the GCWR become the basis of legality? I want to get a tool/fuel combo tank that would add approx 450lbs to the bed, does that drop the max hitch weight even more to 850lbs wet (which is basically unacceptable for any trailer)?



I know all about the slowing down and safer weights debate, blah. I'm looking for legal issues here. The Colorado DOT officer I just talked to said they go by GCWR and don't give a rip about the GVWR when towing but that isn't necessarily the case for other states/insurance companies..... Any insurures out there wanna chime in?



Brian

ps. those with a fifth wheel hitch, what's a decent 15k hitch weigh???

 

[RustyJC]

THIS might answer your questions.



Rusty

 

[CROW]

One thing to look out for when you are looking at specs from RV manufacturers. Many fifth wheels have a bedroom slideout that is an option. If a pin weight is listed in the basic specs, it will probably be without the bedroom slide option. If you add the bedroom slideout option, you will add a lot of weight to the pin since most or all of the weight of the slide will be on the pin.



As far as selecting either a bumper pull trailer or a fifth wheell, check carefully since many will tell you that a fifth wheel is much easier and safer to pull and has easier hook-ups.

Good Luck on your search.

 

[Ramtough]

Rusty is right - Your truck is like mine & weighs 7500#. The GVW is 8,800 leaving payload @ only 1,300#. My fifth wheel has a pin weight of 2,880.



I discovered this & precipitated a long thread several months back in the 24v non-engine forum. You may find it by doing a search on my handle.



The most frustrating part is that the 1/2 ton 2WD has a higher payload. I think it has something to do with the government's differentation between light & medium duty trucks than it does carrying capacity because I have well over 8,800 of axle and tire capacity.



My truck handles my trailer fine & I am within the GCWR but I will upgrade to the 3500 next go around. I'm still not ready for a dually. (Can't afford the garage it requires)



Good luck & happy trailering.

 

[Sregorb]

Wow, after reading all that it makes me wonder about the mention of the possibility of a lawsuit against DC for offering the camper package and then not supporting a corresponding increase in GVWR or the ability to even use a camper.....



Also, the fact that the insurance companies knowingly will insure both the truck and camper/trailer/5th wheel combo knowing full well that you intend to use them expressely gives consent and committment to provide coverage... . "unless grossly overweight". Which would be determined at time of application for coverage since ins companies all have the same vehicle specs and ratings.



Obviously the general rule is the lighter I can keep it the better. But it's also obvious that in "good faith" and in everyday practice among the public the truck is rated for and able to handle more. The question then steers more toward, "What then is grossly overweight?" In the case of the Bronco I would agree 26,000lbs on a 5,000lbs hitch is excessive to extreme. But what about 1,000lbs over when it's due to 5th hitch and the overload springs aren't even close to touching yet?, 500lbs? How about 1lb? Sounds like the only determination there is (if it ever went that far) to be made by the jury weighing all the circumstances.



Great info so far, keep it coming.



Brian

 

[Sarge]

Brian, If you are wondering how to legally stay safe, I can tell you from experience that most Highway Patrol's or Troopers are not going to check a RV for weight, unless you are obviously slammed. However, if they do, the main way to check overloading is to weigh the rear axle of the truck, and check the printed max load weight of the tires. Vehicle weights can be argued all day, but exceeding the safe tire load limit is a short cut to a NASTY weight ticket. In So Cal, the minimum fine starts at a dollar a pound for every pound you are over the printed max load weight of your tires. Then they add penalties and fees. Your 2500 will have quite a bit of room left on the rear axle as mine did, but rethink that toolbox/fuel tank option. It takes a big bite out of your available payload. (If you have the factory tires on your truck, the max axle weight will usually be the sum of your max tire load weight doubled). Whatever you do, be safe, and don't let a salesman give you a load of nonsense "Don't worry, your truck can pull it easy!!!"



As for the hitch, look around at some of the available 5ver hitches out there. I am not a big of Reese, as their jaw locking system "pinches" the pin with a jaw on each side that squeezes together. This allows for a certain amount of slop in the pin, which translates into a rougher ride. Look at some of the other hitches out there that hook the pin with a single jaw. They close much tighter, and you will not regret the ride. Hope this helps... ... ... . Sarge

 

[DPelletier]

Brian,

OK, here's my take on your situation.



- 1) Rusty, hats off to you. I wondered when you would have a link to your previous posts (here or elsewhere) so you wouldn't have to keep repeating yourself! I have been following your posts on IRV2 as well. Brian, I generally agree with Rusty's take on things and he has some good information.



- 2) You have two separate issues from my perspective. The first is legal/insurance issues. You asked about your situation from a legal perspective and the answer is you will be over your trucks GVWR by a significant margin. (maybe 1500 - 2000 lbs). On the other hand I have been following this issue for some years now and have yet to hear about anyone getting sued or whatever for being in an accident when over GVWR. Doesn't mean it won't happen, just that it doesn't seem to be happening at this time. The risk (should you choose to accept it) is yours.



- 3) I agree that the manufacturers GVWR ratings are a bunch of crap. there is no legitimate reason for a HD 2500 diesel pickup with a camper package, overloads, sway bars, etc. to be limited to a payload of 1300 lbs. I own several 1/2 ton trucks at work that have more payload capacity than that and I can tell you that I felt safer in my 2500 Dodge with my 2714 lb camper on than any of those trucks with just the rack and tool box. I think that from a safety perspective if you are within your rear GAWR and max. tire weight ratings that you are OK. Still illegal as hell, but OK.



- 4) As far as a real world example goes, I will tell you that I had a 2001. 5 QC 4x4 ETC Auto c/w camper and trailer packages. I hauled a 2714 lb camper (loaded) from Kelowna, B. C. to Gonzaga Bay, Baja Mexico and back (including the road from hell, Gonzaga Bay to San Philipe). Only modification to the truck was the addition of Rancho 9000x's which I ran at level 9. The 10 ply load range E tires were aired to 80psi cold. The truck handled the load well in both offroad conditions and highway speeds up to 75 mph. I am not advocating that anyone else try this, just trying to provide you with my experiences in this regard. I bought the truck when I had a 24' (6500lb) travel trailer and if I had the camper before I bought the truck, I would have bought a 3500 dually. Two weeks ago, I traded my '01 for the dually in my sig. With 12,000 lbs GVWR and 23,500 GCWR, weight issues no longer concern me. In fact the new truck has more payload with the camper loaded than the old one did without! Ridiculous? Perhaps.



- 5) My final advice would be: forget about the tool box/fuel tank combo and consider purchasing on the light side of what you are looking at.



Sorry for the long post. Hope this helps

Dave

 

[RMcCulloch]

Brian, you've received some great advice from people who know - so I'm addressing the last part of the query:

Originally posted by Sregorb

ps. those with a fifth wheel hitch, what's a decent 15k hitch weigh???

My hitch shipped at 330 pounds, complete with air-suspension and shock absorbers.



If you're planning to tow that rig off the beaten path, I'd strongly recommend looking into one like mine.

 

[GAmes]

hitch weight

I have a Husky 16k 5er hitch. It weighs about 65 or 70 pounds, plus whatever the rails weigh.