Gee, maybe I should have got a dually!

[Katman]

I'm new to the forum, but got a lot of great info here before I bought my truck a couple of weeks ago. Love the truck! Joins my two other diesel vehicles (VW jettas). I'm going through a little buyer's remorse, though, after going a little deeper into the discussions on towing.



I've been looking at class A motor homes for about a year in anticipation of buying in early 2007. Got the truck, though, and began thinking about looking at towing instead. I didn't get a dually because the wife felt they were too big for her to drive comfortably. So, ended up with the 2500, short bed, 4x4 with the 11. 5 axle. Now my head is sort of saying I probably really limited myself as I start to look at what I can safely tow. How limited will our shopping be? Me, I can sleep under the stars. The wife wants to travel in comfort. I'd leave her behind but she has been a pretty good partner for quite a few years. So, since towing instead of buying a class A makes a lot of sense to me, should I feel I need to talk to my dealer about switching to a dually?

 

[Foil Freak 1211]

I'm sure you will get many passionate responses in this thread. Would a dually give you more stability when towing? Probabaly. Do you need it to safely tow. I'd say no. When I bought my truck, the tow ratings were actually higher on a SRW because of the extra weight that is added with the DRW. You can see from my sig what I tow. I have never felt unsafe.



Remember, there are a lot of trade offs with a dually. Much more difficult to park, probably won't fit in your garage, can't take it through a car wash, increase your bill by 50% every time that you go to buy tires. I'm glad that I went with my set up.

 

[gonzo2]

Well, welcome to the TDR.

You will get a lot of opinions but you can still get a pretty darn nice trailer to pull with your 2500. I would say to look around first and if you come to the conclusion that you just gotta' have the quad slide 36' fifth wheel then start looking again at the truck configuration. The truck you have can still tow a lot but you can get limited with regard to payload (ie tongue weight) quickly.

3500 SRW is an option too. There isn't all that much difference in the truck but the extra (allowed) GVW helps.

 

[Grizzly]

First, welcome to TDR. It's a good web site and there are a lot of great folks here. We need more information to determine your needs. You can tow a 5th wheel or TT with a short bed 2500. Maybe limited in size, but how much trailer do you need? Is it just you and your wife? If you want a 36' 5th wheel, then maybe a dually is best. If you can get by with a 24', your present truck can handle it with a slider hitch. I personally would stay away from a TT, I know I'll get some argument on that. Include your signature so that we can know about your truck. Good luck.

 

[Grizzly]

gonzo2, I think you and I just said the same thing at the same time. How you doing? Thanks for all the help on my Alaska thread. grizzly

 

[Jaysyl]

My wife said your better get six wheels, were not getting another truck for a long time. I wanted the 3500swr. Glad I (we) got six wheels. I like driving the truck. The wife evens drives. She just cant park as close to the mall :-laf :-laf as she once did. Now I know I can get just about any trailer I (we) want.

 

[Katman]

Thanks all. I'll have to go back and look at the signature setup for the forum. don't know why the particulars didn't come through. Truck is a 2500 4x4, auto, Quad cab, small box, load range e tires (3195) GAWR 5200 (front) and 6010 (rear). When I pleasure travel I can fit pretty much everything I need in a small backpack. The spouse--give her the leeway and she will fill the back of the truck for an overnight stay. I can never figure out why someone would bring an electric hair dryer on a wilderness trip, but last time we went to Montana she did it. Man, she likes the quad slide 40' class A coach, but as long as we have some sort of shower, heat and AC she would probably be content! If not, I might look for a slide in like Grizzly's opted for and follow him up to Alaska.

 

[RustyJC]

When I bought my truck, the tow ratings were actually higher on a SRW because of the extra weight that is added with the DRW.

And herein lies the problem with the small print. Along with the tow ratings, buried at the bottom is the admonition that none of the truck's other ratings should be exceeded - including the GVWR. With heavy 5th wheels that typically carry 20% or more of their loaded weight on the kingpin, a SRW truck will always exceed its GVWR before it reaches the tow rating - the significantly higher GVWR is the advantage of the dually insofar as ratings are concerned when towing a 5th wheel.



Rusty

 

[Katman]

Yup, Rusty, that's what got me thinking about this as I started reading some of the discussion on 5th wheels. The spec's say I can tow 12,950, but the sticker on the door has GVWR at 9000 and payload is listed as 2,090. I haven't started looking at 5th wheels yet, but the 3500 short box 4x4 payload spec is 2,920. Seems considerable, but I don't know till I start shopping how that extra capacity relates to available trailers.

 

[RustyJC]

Before you go 5th wheel shopping, it would pay you to weigh your truck with driver, passengers, full fuel tank, cargo, etc. just like you would head out on the road. Now, add another 100 or 150 lbs for a 5th wheel hitch if you don't already have one. This is your laden curb weight (LCW). Subtract the LCW from the truck's GVWR and that's how much pin weight you can handle without going over your truck's GVWR.



When shopping for 5th wheels, a conservative approach is to take 20% of the 5th wheel's GVWR as the laden pin weight you'll be dealing with.



Good luck and enjoy your shopping.



Rusty

 

[Katman]

Okay, I see what your saying on the pin weight estimate. I'm assuming I also have to keep the pin weight number below the published payload for the truck or is that just a published number that needs to be documented by actually weighing the vehicle?

 

[RustyJC]

No, the real pin weight (the payload of interest) you can carry without exceeding your GVWR is calculated by subtracting your laden curb weight (LCW) from your GVWR.



Rusty

 

[DaveK98]

Thank god for Duallys...



I solved the wife issue like this... She has her car I have mine. She has never driven the truck... .

 

[kbond]

Before you go 5th wheel shopping, it would pay you to weigh your truck with driver, passengers, full fuel tank, cargo, etc. just like you would head out on the road. Now, add another 100 or 150 lbs for a 5th wheel hitch if you don't already have one. This is your laden curb weight (LCW). Subtract the LCW from the truck's GVWR and that's how much pin weight you can handle without going over your truck's GVWR.



When shopping for 5th wheels, a conservative approach is to take 20% of the 5th wheel's GVWR as the laden pin weight you'll be dealing with.





Good luck and enjoy your shopping.



Rusty

So question here... I see this configuration more a more each day where guys have 5th wheels towing a tag. How does that tag come into play with payload on the truck or does it? for me... I would like to run this same setup. Probably a smaller toy hauler 5th wheel with a hitch and my boat (5000lbs) connected to the 5th. I want to tow this with my shortbed megacab 3500.

 

[RustyJC]

So question here... I see this configuration more a more each day where guys have 5th wheels towing a tag. How does that tag come into play with payload on the truck or does it?

The 2nd trailer doesn't put any pin weight on the truck - in fact, the hitch weight it places on the rear of the 5th wheel will probably remove some pin weight from the truck (think how a see-saw works). So, the 2nd trailer really counts against GCWR and overall length.



Check the regulations where you'll be traveling for the legality of towing double. It isn't legal everywhere, and some states have special licensing requirements.



Rusty

 

[Foil Freak 1211]

And herein lies the problem with the small print. Along with the tow ratings, buried at the bottom is the admonition that none of the truck's other ratings should be exceeded - including the GVWR. With heavy 5th wheels that typically carry 20% or more of their loaded weight on the kingpin, a SRW truck will always exceed its GVWR before it reaches the tow rating - the significantly higher GVWR is the advantage of the dually insofar as ratings are concerned when towing a 5th wheel.



Rusty

Looking at the Dodge website, I see that you are right, there is a couple thousand pound difference between the SRW and DRW on GVWR. The difference probably is not as substantial as I thought when I first looked; the SRW SWB must weigh a chunck less than a DRW LWB. Either way, you can still get a pretty large 5er with SRW. Mine is 32', 11,200 lbs (wet weight) with about 1875 lbs pin weight.

 

[klenger]

A good compromise is a 3500 SRW 2WD. The 3500 SRW adds 900# to the GVWR and the 2WD drops about 600# from the empty weight, yeilding a 1500# net gain in capacity. There are some nice trailers and 5th wheels in the < 25' range that might work with your current truck.

 

[RJOL]

I went through this same thinking when I sold my 2001 2500 and bought a 2005 3500 dually. Any way I added it up, I was over weight on the rear axle (and probably overloading the tires) with my 31" Alpenlite 5th wheel with two slides. Would my 2500 tow it... yes. Would it tow it in safety... maybe. You can get a smaller (lighter) 5th wheel (probably under 30' and no slide over the king pin) or get a tow behind travel trailer. Now for my reflections, after one year of owning the 3500. 1. It is harder to park (finding a bigger spot) but I just park a little further away from the store. 2. It's heavier and the gear ration of the G56 leaves a little to be desired so the MPG is down a little (even while not towing if you drive above 60-65mph). 3. It is much more stable then my 2500 while towing my 5th wheel and I feel a lot more comfortable while towing. 4. All in all I still think I made the right decision. By the way... If your wife needs to take a "hair dryer" on a camping trip... she sounds like someone who will not be happy with just a sleeping place and a shower... I know... I married one that does the same thing...

 

[Big MAK]

I've owned both; tow heavy; and don't really notice a difference with a SRW. In a strong crosswind maybe I would; I doubt it. I would only be adamant about a DRW if I had a heavy slide in (in the bed camper; Lance type of thing) -- but towing a 5th wheel you are quite stable even with a SRW. I also run with airbags so maybe that helps -- doesn't matter with respect to weight ratings but does keep everything perfectly level so not getting any sag or wobble in wind or bumps.

 

[SChen]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who has gone through this... I had a Dodge 1500 and wanted a small trailer to go camping with, choices were very limited, so we started looking at the 2500, but my wife was the one who decided that the truck would not be the limiting factor in whatever we wanted to tow, so we went with a dually and absolutely love it. No second guessing on what we should have done.

My wife is in the army and normally drives a MINI Cooper S to work. She had to take the dually in one day and the First Sergeant pulled in next to her in his Duramax 2500 and couldn't believe it when she got out of the dually, especially after all the grief he gives her for driving the MINI.



Scott