Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) general VP questions

[Ncostello]

In relation to my idle miss...



If I were to take my VP off the engine, is there anything I could replace myself like the high pressure selonoid. Could I open it up and check anything without assured destruction.



Bosch service center said they cant test them cause Bosch does not have a test stand available for it and they have not offered classes on how to rebuild them either. My only options are to buy a new one, a factory reman unit, or neither. I asked about just rebuilding mine since I think its a decent candidate since the truck runs good except at idle. Cant do it they said. I also have no codes on the scan tool.



I've read some posts about taking the top off and checking for some loose screws or something to that effect.



I figure if it runs fine at throttle, the fuel selenoid might be messing up or something. I think I could do it if I had to. The VP cant be that bad if the truck runs fine except at idle. Ive double checked all connections, didnt help.



Dodge wont warranty my VP cause the previous owner tapped the wire for a box. Instant denial. I'm willing to do whatever I can without spending $1500 additional dollars on my truck.



If I have to I'll just keep driving it like this until the VP quits but dont like that idea either.

 

[Reb.B]

Put a p 7100 pump in its place. Only way to fix it, well, at least the best way. Those p 7100 kick a$$ and they run, and run, and run, kinda like that energizer bunny, lol. or u can put another VP 44 in its place and do it again, and again, and again. Well at least u would be an expert with VP 44's then.

 

[jalberring]

How much for the P7100 retrofit kit?



Sounds like it would be really expensive.

 

[MCummings]

$10K ?



If I heard through the grapevine correctly.



Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[curatchko]

10 grand? Lets stick with reality here... :--)



Even 5 grand is a joke.



There is NOTHNING in those pumps that cost 10grand... it's robbery.



For 10 grand, PITCH the diesel, and build a fuel injected big block chevy for it that will out pull any ISB.



No diesel is worth that kind of hassle.

 

[fj40charles]

>>>For 10 grand, PITCH the diesel, and build a fuel injected big block chevy for it that will out pull any ISB.





I don't know about you, but I just don't see how a fuel injected big block willl outpull a bombed Cummins in a reliable manner.

There is no way it will have more useful low end torque than a Cummins.



Charles

 

[curatchko]

Well, until I did all these mods that you see in my sig which only makes my cummins pull AS GOOD, it didn't hold a candle to my 99 2500 Suburban with the Vortec 454, and 4. 10 gears... . not even a dimly lit candle. And hassle free.





And now, with all these bombs, my fuel mileage it beginning to creep down towards what I was getting with the 454 while towing, and I'm trying to figure out what makes all the noise, high maintanence, all the cold weather bolony, and all the mechanical problems worth it... .





I'm trying to keep the glass half full instead of half empty, and being a general 'car guy' I like the diesel engine, but I'm still asking myself if it was worth the trade... .



As for reliable, I didn't even once have to even think about lift pumps, transmissions, exhaust temerature, VP44's or anything of the sort... get in and go... never had a hint of an ounce of trouble pulling 11-12000 pounds.

 

[Reb.B]

hey i'm a chevy man, but there ain't no way a fuel injectected BBC is gonna beat a big time bombed CTD in pullin'. As for the swap, i've heard vendors say 14. 5 and 7. 5. I'm doing my own conversion. I should have less than two k into it. There are people out there doing the conversion for $1,500, labor . It Is the best way to go. Talk to any diesel inj. pump guy who knows what they are talking about and they will tell u the same thing. So, for me curatchko, this IS reality, i do my own stuff when ever i can. Thats what makes owning a vehicle fun. I'm gonna build my own pump, work on my own heads, do the install, etc. What i am not doing is bending my own lines, shieds sells them at a fair price, so i went with theirs. Oh, yah, curatchko, bring that little BBC chev down here to play when yah get a chance! just kidding, like i said i Love, BBC and SBC chevys, but there is a place for everything, and chevy just aren't meant for the pullin' track, and that goes for the Duramax too, ... . oops, lol

 

[curatchko]

Well, honestly I hope I'm convinced of that as time goes on... .



Take Care,



Chris

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

10k is way off.



the injection lines are ~$450

the pump cover must be from a 12v then machined to accept a cam sensor <$500



then buy the pump, kick down cable, shut off solenoid, throttle cable. A beefy aftermarket lift pump to supply the P-pump.



the easiest way is to buy a used motor and add the lines and machining to the cover then sell the rest. should be able to do it for under $5k then sell the long block for 1-2k



not that i'd thought about doing it myself or anything

fwiw,

mark

 

[jwilliams3]

Waste of money! if you want a 12 valve buy a 12 valve.

There about 3-5k for a decent used one complete.



Besides the 24valve/VP44 is king these days with the exception of open class sled pulling.



--Justin

 

[Ncostello]

I'll buy a 12V truck versus a change over. No way am I going to sink 1/3 the trucks value in a fuel injector pump (assuming $5000 for the complete change over) I can make easier smoke with one anyway. I just wanted to fix anything and check everything I could myself on the VP.



What is the big hang up on a Bosch certified shop being able to test the output of a VP. I find it amazing its that complicated to simply test.

 

[Reb.B]

nope, 24v head, pistons and p-pump is King, sorry. The lines cost $350 at shieds, and if u use a 12v balancer and pick up sencor and wire to the PCM u don't have to machine the 12 v housing for the cam sencor. But to each there own.

 

[Reb.B]

oh, and one more thing i forgot to mention ..... its only money, right? it really is alot cheaper if u do it yourself.

 

[TxDieselKid]

I saw on a thread once where Schieds charges somewhere around $4-5 grand.



Andrew

 

[JHansen]

Back to the VP44 and parts replacing... ..... I have a dead ETH one in the basement that I removed the circuit board from (how the circuit board got dead is a long tragic story best told over a beer or 6 and involving a lot of agitated hand motions ). Keep in mind as I relay this that I undertook this project 3 months ago and my memory is usually only good for about 3 minutes..... as far as I could determine the timing solenoid, injection solenoid and timing sensor are all permanently attached to the circuit board. It was quite a chore to get said items out of the pump-I recall quite a bit of swearing and a lot of sweating before the job was done. There were Bosch part #'s on the solenoids themselves----but I have a sneaking suspicion that you would find them unlisted if you took the #'s to a Bosch dealer. Actually, there was a Bosch part # on the board as well. I need to find out from my buddy who actually owns the pump whatever happened with the board repairs..... I should put it back together before anymore brain cells die off I suppose . If and when I do see the board again I plan to write down all the part #'s off all the solenoids etc. just for fun and try ordering them from a Bosch dealer-could be that they are available-or could be that the Dream Police will show up knocking on my door to take me into custody for meddling in things mere mortals aren't supposed to.....



The timing sensor is the thing located under the top cover that you've read the posts about checking for loose screws. If you can get the top cover off (some use a standard Torx, some use a 5 point tamperproof Torx) it would probably be worth your while to check it out anyways. The screws are a fairly small Torx head-IIRC it's T10 but it's been awhile as stated above.



Hope I helped you a little and didn't confuse you anymore... ...



Jason

 

[Ncostello]

Fellow Members...

For all those who know how the VP operates, is it possible that this fuel injection pump could consistently deliver bad fuel charges to say the #2 and #5 cylinders, but do great on the others. Or is a problem inside the pump more likely to deliver poor fuel pressures or charges to different cyls at random, such that maybe its the #2 now, and then the #6 seconds later. I think the P-pump could do this since each engine injector has its own fuel pump piston, but I dont know if the #2 and #5 injectors on a 24V has its own little section inside the VP that could only affect them.



Just wondering cause I'm going to have the diagnostic computer at Schieds run another scan of the truck. If it still says its the #2 and #5 I was wondering what in the VP (if anything) would cause this so as to solve by process of elimination.



I figure if I'm getting consistent bad cyl readings, I'm not gonna waste time and money on a VP when the problem lies elsewhere in the components specific to those cylinders.

 

[FASTERTHANU]

fuel injected BBC?... that must stand for Big Ball of Crack cause that's what you've been smokin'. :--)

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Here's a link to an old post with lots of information on the VP44 - https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40260 . There are pictures of one torn down in there too. From looking at those pictures there are 3 plungers in the VP. They could operate in one of two ways (and I'm not sure which) - they could work in series and each one raises the pressure of the fuel and then it is injected. Or what I think is more likely is that each plunger is an injection cycle. The firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4 IF it does operate that way and there was a problem with a plunger it would be on every 3rd cylinder so you could have a problem on cylinder #5 and #2.



As to repairability of the VP44 the last that I heard Bosch has come up with a program for shops to become certified in repairing VP44's. In order for a shop to be able to order parts for the VP44 they have to be certified in it. Here's where the problem comes in - last I heard ZERO shops had signed up for the repair program. In order to get certified they have to purchase a test stand that is specific to the VP44 and it requires an investment of approximately $200,000. Rebuilt VP44's cost approximately $1300 at cost from Bosch's rebuild facility. The VP44 is a very limited market since they only used them from 1998. 5 through 2002. They'd have to sell a lot of rebuilds to pay off that $200,000. In talking with a Bosch repair shop they figured they'd have to sell approximately 20 rebuilt VP44's a week to pay for the equipment. So instead they just buy rebuild's from Bosch - much less risk. So to answer your question, yes they COULD be worked on but AFAIK noone CAN work on them or get the parts.



That's the info that I have gotten from talking with different shops, etc. I could be wrong and someone could have the equipment now.

 

[Ncostello]

Read all 11 pages Steve. Thanks. If I do end up buying a new one, I'm keeping my old one as a desk trophy. My opinion about the VP now is that its something not worth knowing how it works, but rather if it works. Even if you know everything about it, theres nothing you can do with it physically. Exactly what I needed to know.



I went and stared at the engine on our 95 dually at work. That P7100 pump looks so nice sitting on there. I wonder if they'd miss it. :-laf