Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Geno's Vulcan Kit Fittings & $70 LP ports??

[BK]

I've got my $70 lift pump.

I've got my Geno's Vulcan Kit.

But the barbed fittings (that came with the Geno's Vulcan kit) that thread into the LP ports don't thread well into the new $70 LP, feels like it's a US thread vs a metric thread, or a taper thread starting to seat after just a thread or two.



It only goes in a thread or two, and tightens up real quick.



Are these $70 LP inlet and outlet threaded ports different then what normally is on CTD Ram LP?



I thought the $70 LP was a drop in replacement?

Do I need to purchase different fittings to fit the $70LP?



TIA,

Bob

 

[Doug1810]

just tried 1/4 npt thread in my stock lp goes in just 1/8 of turn. take a banjo bolt and try to screw it in the lp if it goes in the thread is m12. if not may be 1/4 npt does your barb fittings have an o ring or rubber washer on them because if they are m12 staight thread they should . the m12 barb i got did .

 

[GCULP]

YUP, same suggestion, try one of the old banjo bolts in the new pump to see it it works, then try one of the new fittings in the old pump.

 

[BK]

just tried 1/4 npt thread in my stock lp goes in just 1/8 of turn. take a banjo bolt and try to screw it in the lp if it goes in the thread is m12. if not may be 1/4 npt does your barb fittings have an o ring or rubber washer on them because if they are m12 staight thread they should . the m12 barb i got did .

YUP, same suggestion, try one of the old banjo bolts in the new pump to see it it works, then try one of the new fittings in the old pump.

Thanks guys.

My old LP is still in the truck and about 3/4 a live - hence why I haven't tried that.

But that certain does sound like it.



I haven't done the jop yet. Just got all the peieces and playing with them. The Barbs have a metal washer, with an inner rubber seal with a rib on it.



Here's the barb fitting with the washer and the banjo bolt adapter that came with the LP campaign kit.

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[BK]

PS:

I've been measuring them to death, in comparison, and I must be missing something cause the OD is the same. I don't measure a tapper, and the threads per inch seem exactly the same.

The pitch of the thread seems the same, but the color could be fooling me.

I have nothing to measure the pitch.

I hunted around the shop for a female thread to put them in and came up empty handed.



I've got two campaign LP, and two of those fitting from Cummins and three of the Barb fittings from the Vulcan kit. So it's not one bad part.



I asked on another thread and someone gave me the number for Vulcan, and I have Geno's of course. So with the info from you guys above, a bit better harmed to discuss it.



Thanks.

 

[Bob Cochran]

I would like to hear the answer to this one also. I have 2 of the $70 pumps( I was lucky mine cost $64. 50 ea. ) from Cummins and sure like to know if the input/output ports are different than the stock OEM pump. I installed the Vulcan big line kit on a stock Cummins currently in the truck and had no problem with the adapters fitting into that pump. Hate to find out on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere USA that they are different.

 

[Doug1810]

i would think you will find the $70 lp is 1/4 npt if you have air tools you can take one of those fittings and try gently to turn it into the $70 lp because most air nipples are 1/4 npt on threaded end . just a thought

 

[BK]

i would think you will find the $70 lp is 1/4 npt if you have air tools you can take one of those fittings and try gently to turn it into the $70 lp because most air nipples are 1/4 npt on threaded end . just a thought

Good thought, got a ton of them out in the garage. . didn't think about 'em...

Will try.



Do you know what the stock LP thread is. As mentioned above it is m12?



Thanks.

Bob

 

[BK]

I tried the 1/4npt air tool fittings, I also have female's for the end of hoses.



The male end wont even start into the campaign LP ports.



When I test either fitting shown above, they rattle around in the 1/4npt female terribly.

So it ain't 1/4npt , and to think about it , the npt is meant seal on the threads and tighten via taper, correct?

So the two shown above are meant to seal with washers, so it can't be a tapered npt type thread... I would assume.



Myster continues, too early yet, haven't made calls to Geno's or Vulcan.

I searched the web, couldn't find a bill of materials of any sort for the parts in the campaign kit... hoping for a description of the adapters supplied.

 

[Dieselnutz]

Mine also were a tight fit. I cleaned the threads up with a 12x1. 5 die. Just take a steel bush and remove some of the zinc plating and it should be fine.

 

[BK]

Yup, Just called Eric of Vulcan, real nice guy. Great conversation.

He said at times the plating builds up in the valley of the thread (where I can't measure).

I don't have a die, so used the FP port.

But guys if you do as I did cause you don't have the die. . make sure you only do it half way in then back it out and clean out the FOD left behind in the port of your LP and the threads of the fitting, then go in all the way, and clean both again.

Some mean little curly cues are left behind.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Could it be 10mm x 1. 5 metric?

 

[BK]

Could it be 10mm x 1. 5 metric?

I know I have the same fittings as stock, and as Dieselnutz, so I would have to go by what he said , since he had dies...

Mine also were a tight fit. I cleaned the threads up with a 12x1. 5 die. Just take a steel bush and remove some of the zinc plating and it should be fine.

You could always buy the Geno's vulcan kit, so you have spare washers, the fittings and the hoses and clamps.

.

.

 

[JKinney]

I put on the vulcan kit last fall. I just put on one of my 64. 90 pumps because mine was showing some drops to 5 psi, and Im getting ready for a road trip and wanted no fuel issues. Anyway I put the vise grips to the hoses, loosened my hose clamps and unscrewed my stainless vulcan fittings. Mounted the new pump and with the hoses still on the fittings clamps loose vise grips hanging, they started to thread in, and I put the 11/16 box end on em and threaded them in, I felt no binding. Im disappoointed that I have only 12 psi with the campaine pump and I can haul it down to 9 underload. What does campaine stand for C=carter :-{}

 

[BK]

I understand from a relaible source that Carter is making these pumps.

Also these pumps , again from what I've read, have a "bypass" circuit in them for the fuel. Based on the recall info, if the pump failed or stalled, the engine stalled, so this redesign which includes the bypass answers to the safety recall for the corrective action. So I assume that the bypass means that there is an internal fluid path bypass so the VP44 can pull fuel through the LP if the LP stalls. I would also guess that this little bypass may lower the pressure a bit.



I think your fine @ 9. You guage could easily be off 1-2lbs.

The trick is to keep and eye on it. The truck is running well, feels good, so now you have your baseline.

 

[Parks]

The banjo bolts should be 12mm 1. 5 .

Now about the pumps.

If I remember correctly, these cheaper pumps do not produce as much pressure or the volume that you would see with your stock pump. They are used on some Cummins engines but not on the ISB in the Dodge trucks. They are meant to be used on buses and bread trucks. You can use the pump but you may find out that they are not going to produce the pressure or the volume that you would see with the stock Carter pump.

Now with the fluid bypass on the pump, that would be fine for the 3rd gens but you really don't want your VP44 to have to suck the fuel from the tank. That pretty much happens on your stock pump and causes the injection pump to crap out.

 

[BK]

The banjo bolts should be 12mm 1. 5 .

Now about the pumps.

If I remember correctly, these cheaper pumps do not produce as much pressure or the volume that you would see with your stock pump. They are used on some Cummins engines but not on the ISB in the Dodge trucks. They are meant to be used on buses and bread trucks. You can use the pump but you may find out that they are not going to produce the pressure or the volume that you would see with the stock Carter pump.

Now with the fluid bypass on the pump, that would be fine for the 3rd gens but you really don't want your VP44 to have to suck the fuel from the tank. That pretty much happens on your stock pump and causes the injection pump to crap out.

Based on info From the $70 LP thread, a few of the guys asked specifically for a pump for their Ram and were told/sold the recall kit for their Ram.

Others were told ~$200 bucks since it was for the dodge and not the recall, same kit is the right kit/pump. Others were offered the pump alone, again reported as the same pump in the recall kit.

For the kit others if asked and gave a good s/n (as posted on the thread) , got the $70 price. If not... ~$200 or more price.



One gent I spoke with, is about to become a carter (FM) dealer and said it is the right pump.



I can agree with you about the VP44 vs the LP going dead. . but the new design will allow you to limp home and not get caught in the middle of the road. With a FP gauge, you'll know to keep your foot out of it. Better than stuck in the middle of the road.



Also I believe (could be wrong, but no time to read that whole thread again) it was at the very beginning of the $70 LP thread, one gent researched it and found that the last p/n from DC for the LP had a change, and this bypass was the change. This Cummins recall kit is the Carter pump just with extra instructions and parts for the low fuel pressure warning and the special price.



So with all these grains of info, it seems it's the right pump. I can't be 100% sure since I don't have direct access to any of the written facts.



-------------------------------------------------------

EDIT about my above comment...

I was wrong in part, the info wasnt from DC or our $70 LP thread, it was another forum



From the other forum...

"I stopped by CumminsN Power on Hwy 100 and the I94 just south of Milwaukee, WI. Really great parts department! They gave me the scoop. They say that we can get the new pump, just not for the price of the 4090046. The 4090046 is just as it was stated before, for recalls, in "Cummins" powered units. They can't do warranty on the Dodge stuff, it has to go through DC. Its not viewed by Cummins as their powerplant. DC would have to perform this "recall" if they were do ever do it. They did tell me that the part number of the 24 valve lift pump has changed, and it is 4932707, $161 [verymad] . It supercedes the old part number. "

But there is more info to tie it together on ours...

From our $70 LP thread:

LETHLISB



Cummins has just released a Service/Parts topic for "New Fuel Lift Pump" for all ISB applications.



The Service/Parts topic states:



"This Service/Parts Topic announces the release on new fuel lift pumps for the ISB & QSB VP44 series engines. The new fuel lift pump, Part Number 4932707, obsolete and supersede the previous fuel lift pumps (Parts Number 3990105). The new fuel lift pump has a internal bypass circuit in the rotor housing that allows fuel to be drawn, with less restriction, from the fuel tank to the fuel injection pump in the event of an inoperable fuel lift pump. There are no visual differences between the new fuel lift pump and the old fuel lift pump. The new fuel lift pump can only be identified by the part number.

The price of these new pumps will be close to the same price of the 3990082/3990105. The 4932707 is the liftpump out of the 4090046 kit.

"

 

[BK]

I'm doing some digging for old facts and p/ns.....



From a Distributor catering to Dodge owners as well as just Cummins powered stuff... ... . recent info... .



http://www.hoeslidiesel.com/specials.htm



"This Service/Parts Topic announces the release of new fuel lift pumps for ISB and QSB VP44 series engines. "

Cummins 24 Valve 1998. 5-2002



1998. 5-2002 LIFT PUMP LOCATION



3990082/3990105---------> NEW NUMBER 4932707



*SERVICE/PARTS TOPIC ON NEW 4932707 LIFT PUMP*



4932707 ISB LIFT PUMP (HARNESS NOT INCLUDED)---------> $139. 99+ FRT

Back from older threads from research done.....



P/N 5080885AA is the DC # which = P/N 3990105 from Cummins.

The P/N 3990082 = (1) 3990105 + (1) 4025182 wire harness for newer Dodge harness.



The 4932707 is the pump in the campaign 4090046 kit we've been buying.

 

[Dieselnutz]

My $70 pump puts out 15psi at idle and 12 at WOT with the Vulcan Big line kit!

 

[JKinney]

I put on the vulcan kit last fall. I just put on one of my 64. 90 pumps because mine was showing some drops to 5 psi, and Im getting ready for a road trip and wanted no fuel issues. Anyway I put the vise grips to the hoses, loosened my hose clamps and unscrewed my stainless vulcan fittings. Mounted the new pump and with the hoses still on the fittings clamps loose vise grips hanging, they started to thread in, and I put the 11/16 box end on em and threaded them in, I felt no binding. Im disappoointed that I have only 12 psi with the campaine pump and I can haul it down to 9 underload. What does campaine stand for C=carter :-{}

I worked my truck today, drove about 60 miles now the pump is idleing at just 10psi runnin at 8 and full load 5 to 6. I had done a filter change yesterday even though the old filter only had 500 miles on it. Ive got two more pumps, the old part # and one more campaine pump. Im put the old part# one in tonight. I plnnin on haulin out of here with the camper friday night on a long haul, im not starting out with numbers that are dropping this fast. I think campaine stands for "lets see how many of these ten dollar pumps we can sell for 64. 90 with a couple of trick or treat bags in the box to go with em in any givin day.