Getrag question, James? Terry?

[MMiller]

I'm reassembling my getrag, and I've completely disassembled it, cleaned it, inspected it, and am using new snycros and bearings. Speed bearings were fine. During reassembly I noticed wear on my OD/rev syncro where it splines to the output shaft. I noticed that there was wear on the load side for OD. Now everybody here knows I tow heavy and use OD. My question is this wear normal for every truck that sees a lot of highway miles, or is this because of the towing/bombed engine I have?



Thanks for your thoughts. I'm just going to put it back together, I am sure this will not cause any future problems for at least another 2-300,000 miles. I'm just wondering if maybe I should be investigating another way of towing at 70 mph, like a Gearvendors OD, or US Gear OD, then run the getrag in direct and the OD unit in high.



Michael

 

[1stgen4evr]

Well I don't think I tow as heavy as you most of the time but I have been using OD pretty much like any other gear. I was sceptical for a few thousand miles but I began to use OD more and more after I started using the truck full time. (It was my brothers truck for the first 100k miles). We used Amzoil and had not experienced the breakdowns that others reported in the early days. And I have also said that maybe we got a 'good' one, not assembled by idiots with regard to the preload.



I do however tow half the time as the units we deliver are wheel mounted and so when they are delivered, we are running empty back home. We have on occasion pulled a goosneck with serious loads. So the truck all in all has gotten its share of workout (in OD).



If I understand the particular part you are referencing and if you are only speaking of a bit of witness mark showing wear on the splines, then I would say that you could disregard any concern with that. The weakness that I have seen with OD is the actual teeth condition (poor lubricity) and the speed bearing condition under the small gear. From other posts, you will remember that since about 125k miles, I have used AW90 gear lube. I am totally convinced that the long life and tooth condition in the transmission that I used about 480k is the result of using a lube with greater film strength than the automatic trans fluid that was originally in the transmission.



Also, I have NO power upgrades. Additionall, light loads and comuter use would not require the heavy lube.



But none of that addresses your question exactly. Just giving some background on my opinion. Yes, yes, yes, I do think and have always thought that the trucks need a range box that would allow the transmission to be operated more compatibly with the actual load condition the truck is under. It is no secret that I am partial to the Getrag but if I could wiggle my nose and have (for my application) a different design, it would be similar to the old duplex box that MACK used in the 50s and 60s with a rear axle comparable to a Dana 90 (I know that doesn't exist) and a ratio of about 2. 90 to 3. 90 as desired by the owner. Of a more practical choice, I have found a three speed BrownLipe that I hope to incorporate in the Crew cab. I have also bought an 06 engine for power.



James

 

[MMiller]

Yes James, I'm talking about the splines inside the syncronizer. Not the teeth of the gear itself. I was wondering if the guys that just run around empty show these wear marks or if its more us guys that tow in OD. I've aquired a temp gauge for the oil in the trans, so I will be able to see what is going on while towing down the road in the future.



Michael

 

[dpuckett]

I didnt notice any wear marks on my synchros when I had my 2 Getrags apart, though I just reshimmed (for now) the one in my 92, but I wasnt especially looking real hard. Nothing jumped up and slapped me in the face, so to speak. I'd guess when you have to add . 050" of shims to remove slack from the mainshaft, that is a sign of some bearing wear, but I dont do any towing, and keep my foot out of the pedal most of the time. And I have a rebuild kit coming from another TDR member who swapped to a NV4500.



Keep us updated when you figure it all out.



Daniel

 

[1stgen4evr]

"temp gauge for the oil in the trans, "



Not even sure if this idea can be accomplished but I would like to have a temp gage in the splash (or sling) from the OD set and the third gear set. In actuallity, the gear damage that I have seen most prevelant is from low oil and the damage was mostly on third gear set on the cluster and main shaft. I am more inclined to think that this is the result of a hard pull in the mountains.



Since we all run extra oil and most know to keep an eye on the level, I see little of this now days.



Seems to me that a fill tube and dip stick would be a very nice complement to the Getrag.



James

 

[MMiller]

Seems to me that a fill tube and dip stick would be a very nice complement to the Getrag.



James

I've been thinking about this alot. It would be much easier to change the oil if there was an easier way to put it back in. I'm tired of pulling the shifter, and with the driveshaft and exhaust, its nearly impossible to put it in the fill plug at the stock level, let alone 1. 5qt over full.



I've wondered about putting a pipe elbow in the fill plug. Then thread a hose with pipe end on it, up into the engine compartment, with some sort of cap. I don't know how well it would take oil when filling it, and there is no real way to check it though. My other thought is to buy the fastcoolers(planning on it anyway) and machining a hole in it to put an automatic transmission dipstick tube in it, then figuring out how to calibrate the dipstick to the getrag.



On another webcite I saw a picture of a sight glass. They used two 90* fittings, pipe threaded into the case(pto cover for us) and the other side of the fitting was those push lock air fittings. Put one in the bottom of the cover, one in the top of the cover, and clear plastic tube between the two. Fill it up to the specified level, take a paint marker and mark on the cover, then viola a sight glass. It would be easy to see on my 4X4, not so nice on a low riding 2X4. I'm not too worried about tearing it off, I've never had troubles keeping a speedo wiring on the transfer case, and it would be nearly impossible to hit it with road rock, even for me.

 

[dpuckett]

I have considered welding a 1/2NPT bushing (similar to the 1/4NPT bushing/ plug you weld in the exhaust pipe for a post turbo pyro t-couple) high up on the left PTO cover. Take a piece of wire, et al, and bend it 90deg leaving a 5" leg or so, then measure the depth of 3,4, and 5qts as you fill it up, and mark or scratch it accordingly. That way, next oil change, you know how much oil you still have. This lessens the chance of Ol Murphy rearing his ugly head when you install a sight glass setup. Wouldnt have to be anything fancy or sophisticated, just functional.



Michael, since you plan to install the fast coolers, could you drill and tap a plug hole on the top of the left hand one, and then measure and mark a dipstick accordingly? Kinda similar to MagHytec's dipstick for their diff covers.

Daniel

 

[JLEONARD]

Last time I had the Getrag on a lift, I tried to install a regular pipe street elbow and a length of pipe, but the bulge in the Getrag housing won't allow the pipe to clear. So you need a close nipple (pipe nipple) then an elbow to get clearance to go around the housing. Then you'll need a clamp to insure the fitting doesn't vibrate out or fatigue crack.

After you run the hose of your choice (I'd go 3/4 ID hydraulic) and length to a comfortable spot in the engine compartment you'll need another clamp to secure the upper end of the contraption. Add a pipe coupling, then you can make a dipstick of the proper length from rod stock (or threaded rod) then drill/tap a pipe plug and secure the dipstick to it. Weld for giggles to make it really secure and to justify the cost of a new MIG outfit.

Now it's a matter of filling the Gutbag, mark the dipstick, then add the plus quart, and mark the stick again.

You might have to grind the threads a little if you use threaded rod to make a nice place to write "FULL WELCOME TO THE GETRAG PRESERVATION SOCIETY" and "ADD OIL NOW YOU IDIOT PARTS ARE HARD TO COME BY" to the dipstick.



Or if some enterprising young feller here wants to make up a kit for us old farts we'd probably by one assuming it wouldn't break the bank.



Oh yes Michael... use a T instead of the elbow and insert your temp probe there.



OK sorry for the rambling... taking my meds now :-laf

 

[PToombs]

I put a street ell in mine, then added a coupler and a nipple. It cleared ok. Then I welded a 1 -2" piece of welding rod to the cap, instant dipstick. It is a little easier to fill, but slow. I don't know if you can do this on a 4x4, clearence issues.

Why can't you get a pipe x compression fitting that fits a trans dipstick tube, screw in to an elbow, then compression to the tube? Then you can use the stick.

 

[1stgen4evr]

First of all, I am too lazy to do this but I have sat in a chair and figured it out. Use one of those pto blister covers that have a filter inside and lose the filter. Put an sleeve opening in the top that will accept a tube JUST like the automatics. Secure the upper end somewhere inside the engine compartment and with the automatic dip stick re-marked as per Jays instructions, check it from time to time.



James

 

[MMiller]

I've already drilled the PTO cover for my temp probe. Its already tapped, and probe installed.



I'm still thinking alot about the 90 or 45 in the fill plug and a hose made up into the engine compartment. I wonder though if the oil will flow down to it very easy or not. I invision very slow oil and belching air out the top making a mess. I've already ran my breather up into the engine compartment to keep from oil residue running down the side of the transmission.



Somebody go here www.lokar.com, and look at transmission dipsticks. I don't know if anything there will work or not. Trying to figure out how to go from pipe thread to a push in dipstick tube for an auto.



Michael

 

[bgilbert]

MM, I inspected my rusty core and couldn't really see much out of the norm with all the rust. I will have it available for inspection for IRP or SOP whenever you get over this way.

 

[MMiller]

Update. The trans is in, as are the drive shafts and shifter for the tcase. I threaded a pipe nipple into the getrag and a 1/2" Pipe thread female "T". I used the top of the "T" so I could retain the stock fill port for dipstick calibration. I had a 1/2" hose made with 1/2" male pipe swivel crimped onto the end of the hose. With the bottom of the "T" pointed twards the turbo my hose swivel threaded in fine, and the hose is routed behind the down pipe and laid up the inner fender up to the windshield washer tank. I've marked that end of the hose and I will take it back to town for another end to be crimped on, and some sort of cap to weld too. I have a piece of cable that is plastic coated. I was thinking of using this for my dipstick as it will slide down the hose into the "T". I suppose this will be plan "A" and I'll go from there.



Michael

 

[bgilbert]

A little late for this... ... but instead of a dipstick... . why not one of them clear Lexan pto covers (optional with Fast Coolers setup), I think it's called. You could mark with a permanent marker, scripe/whatever incriments/dashes of fluid level. Make a LOW mark = oem fill 3. 5 qts. HIGH mark = 1 quart over or 1. 5 quart over/5 qt total etc. Of course taking into account the additional fluid capacity of each cooler..... ?? Or get all creative and make some trips to your local fitting/hydraulic shop and build ya something better.

 

[MMiller]

Bill, I've posted in the past about the cite glass in the fast coolers, and even making my own, and I keep getting replies that it would be a bad idea and something might jump up their and break it, causing a leak.



The second reason for the tube going into the engine compartment, is actually the first reason for me. So I can change the fluid without pulling the shifter out, and also easier access to the fill plug. The factory location is a pain with my 4X4 and I can't imagine how much easier 4" exhaust makes it.



Michael

 

[PToombs]

Have them crimp another pipe thread fitting on the hose. Then you can get a $. 59 pipe cap at the hardware store and weld the cable to it.

 

[Dieselman359]

Sorry for draggin' my feet

I meant to reply last week when I read your post. I wanted to try and save you some trouble and let you know that the Fast Coolers have a dipstick in them, granted that you have to crawl under the truck to read it though. Also through the dipstick hole, you can refill the transmission with a suction gun and minimal mess. I think that the coolers would be right up your ally Michael, everyone knows about the overfill, but when you add the extra capacity of the coolers+the overfill and I have a grand total of, are you ready for this?,... 6qts! Also, just in case you were wondering, on a hot summer day, loaded down on the highway @ 70mph the oil temp runs around 190*



Oh, by the way, sorry to hear about the transmission Michael.

 

[MMiller]

Thanks for that tip, Chris, although its a little late now. I've got the hose made up with a rather large JIC female end on it, hopefully a funnel or something like that will fit into it. Maybe tomorrow night I can get home early enough to go out and finish the installation and fill up.



I think what I'm going to do is run the truck as is for a while, and then add the transmission coolers to see what the temp difference is. I'm wondering though, I looked on Genos and they say nothing about dipstick or ports, just the coolers themselves.



Michael