Glow Plugs = why do the others use them???

[hammersley]

I had these terrible things on some other small cars - what a mess they were and now I see that they are still causing problems..... WHY would anybody want them over the grid heater? I know VW has the ceramic ones that heat essentially instantly - but for trucks - can't GM and Ford use a similar technology?

 

[Joe G.]

Penny pinching engineering.

 

[RVTRKN]

My opinion is the cylinders walls and heads are weak especially the DMAX and need the glow plug due to lower comp ratio to ignite in cold motor.

 

[DonTX]

Why even have them at all? My 5. 9 cummins has no heat grid or glow plugs at all. Neither did a Perkins I owned as well as my 3406b Cat.

 

[JasonCzerak]

Why even have them at all? My 5. 9 cummins has no heat grid or glow plugs at all. Neither did a Perkins I owned as well as my 3406b Cat.

Bring them diesels up here to minneasota in Feb.



You may wanna rig up some Ether

 

[KWentling]

Why even have them at all? My 5. 9 cummins has no heat grid or glow plugs at all. Neither did a Perkins I owned as well as my 3406b Cat.

At work we had a Winco generator with a B3. 9 Cummins that started at below zero temperatures many times with no grid heater or any other aids. Lots of smoke and ran rough for the first 20 seconds or so but if the batteries were good it always started. I was considering putting a 3. 9 in a Case tractor and inquired about a grid heater for it and was told I wouldn't need it. I've started my Dodge down to 30 without waiting for the grids. Haven't tried it when it's really cold and most of the time I run the Espar so I don't wait for them then anyway. I think mostly the grids are an emissions thing. I'm sure they help for quicker starts too, but not so sure you couldn't start without them, provided you could spin it over fast enough.



Kim

 

[JasonCzerak]

At work we had a Winco generator with a B3. 9 Cummins that started at below zero temperatures many times with no grid heater or any other aids. Lots of smoke and ran rough for the first 20 seconds or so but if the batteries were good it always started. I was considering putting a 3. 9 in a Case tractor and inquired about a grid heater for it and was told I wouldn't need it. I've started my Dodge down to 30 without waiting for the grids. Haven't tried it when it's really cold and most of the time I run the Espar so I don't wait for them then anyway. I think mostly the grids are an emissions thing. I'm sure they help for quicker starts too, but not so sure you couldn't start without them.



Kim

I think it may be the size of the diesel that starts to depend more so on the grid heater/glow plugs, and hte 5. 9 might be just in the low end of not starting when it's cold.



And, why not run the glow plugs/grid heater if you got it and they wanna cycle?

 

[Evan A. Beck]

Glow plugs will heat the cylinder better, since they can concentrate in the heat in EACH cylinder. Grid heaters work well, but in EXTREME cold, glow plugs are the poo.



DMax is now using a grid heater in addition to glow plugs on the LBZ engine. Best of both worlds, IMHO. Also, 99. 5-03 7. 3L PSDs used a manifold heater too, but it only was activated after the engine was running. Helped to cut down on white smoke after startup.

 

[JoshPeters]

The way it was explained to me in Tech school was this:



It's the combustion chamber design. If it has a Pre-cup chamber it uses a Glow plug design. If is a piston/chamber design it uses a grid heater. Reason being the Pre-cup chamber design a good portion of the air is compressed in the chamber, not ontop of the piston like ours. (some still is) When the glow plugs are activated it heats that chamber. When the air is compressed, it's already warm and away it goes. But this also allows the fuel to be sprayed on top of the piston and not hit the glow plugs.



Josh

 

[WStephens]

I use to run heavy equipment at a power plant in Wyoming and the Cat engines did not like the cold Wyoming winters and one had glow plugs and the other had either for starting and at -45 the 930 was really hard to start with glow plugs and would not start at all with out them.



I had a 90 F250 and the 7. 3 had glow plugs and when the control modual would go out it would not start even on a warm day without draging it and poping the clutch.



Every diesel I have owned has had either glow plugs or the grid heater and when they did not work it was tough to get them started and in extream cold weather I would not want to be without them I rarely have to plug in the bock heaters. The Ford only gave me starting problems with the glow plugs functioning properly and it was facing the wind and the chill factor was -78 after an hour with the block heater pluged in it started right up.

 

[Evan A. Beck]

The way it was explained to me in Tech school was this:



It's the combustion chamber design. If it has a Pre-cup chamber it uses a Glow plug design. If is a piston/chamber design it uses a grid heater. Reason being the Pre-cup chamber design a good portion of the air is compressed in the chamber, not ontop of the piston like ours. (some still is) When the glow plugs are activated it heats that chamber. When the air is compressed, it's already warm and away it goes. But this also allows the fuel to be sprayed on top of the piston and not hit the glow plugs.



Josh

PSDs and other DI applications with glow plugs have everything arranged in the head so the fuel is not sprayed on the glow plug tip. Most of the time, the glow plug is adjacent to the injector, like on a PSD or HEUI Cat engine.

 

[tgee]

The way it was explained to me in Tech school was this:



It's the combustion chamber design. If it has a Pre-cup chamber it uses a Glow plug design. If is a piston/chamber design it uses a grid heater. Reason being the Pre-cup chamber design a good portion of the air is compressed in the chamber, not ontop of the piston like ours. (some still is) When the glow plugs are activated it heats that chamber. When the air is compressed, it's already warm and away it goes. But this also allows the fuel to be sprayed on top of the piston and not hit the glow plugs.



Josh

Precup chamber, otherwise known as indirect injection. Made the engine quieter, but not as efficient as direct. Glow plugs are better as far as actually heating the combustion chamber, but live a very harsh life. Dmax and PSD motors are all direct. Don't know of anybody doing indirect anymore. Also, the higher your compression ratio, the more heat you'll make when cranking, provided your cranking speed is fast enough. Other post here mentioned wind chill, yuor motor doesn't feel it, only your skin.

 

[Dieselnut59]

I have disabled the grid heaters on every Cummins my company and I own. They are purely an emission control device. I see no sense in putting extra strain on the charging and electrical system for something that is only on the pickup version of the Cummins engine. Off road and medium truck versions do not have the grid heaters. Higher compression engines (like our Cummins) do not require heating to crank.

 

[BCronk]

I have disabled the grid heaters on every Cummins my company and I own. They are purely an emission control device. I see no sense in putting extra strain on the charging and electrical system for something that is only on the pickup version of the Cummins engine. Off road and medium truck versions do not have the grid heaters. Higher compression engines (like our Cummins) do not require heating to crank.

Bring your cummins up north for a winter and you will be hooking the grids back up. Neither of my trucks will start much below zero without cycling the grids. The grids are available in alot of applications besides the dodge, the 5. 9 cummins in our crane at work has them.

 

[DavidBurt]

No offense intended dieselnut59 but your in Georgia, your right it never gets cold enough there for you to need the grid heater. Try and start that Cummins when its 10 or 15 below zero, it won't happen without help of some kind. (grid heater, block heater, something)

Dave

 

[DonTX]

I think it was "grow into it" option thing with Cummins, in 1989 my motorhome version (engine made in 1988) does not use a heater grid, but later versions did.

 

[Rman]

I have disabled the grid heaters on every Cummins my company and I own. They are purely an emission control device. I see no sense in putting extra strain on the charging and electrical system for something that is only on the pickup version of the Cummins engine. Off road and medium truck versions do not have the grid heaters. Higher compression engines (like our Cummins) do not require heating to crank.

You speak this living in Georgia? C'mon man. I'm not even going to say anything else, just stay in the warm south I guess, you wouldn't make it far without them. You know how many rest stops and truck stops I've sat in with EVERY trucker on the road eating lunch with his fuel filter sitting on a plate beside him? That whole -35 thing isn't too good on the fuel.

 

[therabbittree]

I can say personaly, my my first gen (only 140 k on it) ,when I broke the studs off the grid heater. I ran it for a year with out grid heaters . . man it was tough to start in the NY winter with out plugging it in . . it was my plow truck... so if I plugged her in a few hours before she started perfect and had heat instant . . if I never plugged it in. . I had to crank it a few MINUTES with breaks to cool the starter. . to start . . then Damn you should see the white smoke . it would cover my whole house and roll across the highway and block traffic . . like driving through a foggy patch... heck even 20 degree fahr. or 30 the thing took forever to start with out grids... so I would recommend them to any one driving or using the truck any time the temp goes around freezing mark. .

later,

Deo

 

[DavidBurt]

I don't know how good glowplugs usually work but I have a hard time getting my Ford started at 20 degrees without plugging it in. Smoke and rattle so bad it sounds like its coming apart. Granted it is a piece of crap truck too.

 

[hammersley]

I think it was "grow into it" option thing with Cummins, in 1989 my motorhome version (engine made in 1988) does not use a heater grid, but later versions did.

I think that was because very few Motorhomes are used in freezing weather where starting is an issue... ... Take an RV or MH into 0 degree weather for a week and you'll usually have a lot of stuff to fix... ... . even the ones that tell you everything is heated... ... .