Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Goerend Transmission

[AClayton]

I have been satisfied with my ATS modified transmission for some time now. As Power increased though,the VB and TC upgrade was just barely doing the job. I have read with great interest all the ATS bashing on other sites and some on TDR and disregarded much of the bad publicity. Until now!!



My transmission is not bad yet and the fluid is still red in color and does not smell burnt. It has 130K with the last 20K with the ATS upgrades. I called ATS and they agreed that I probably needed a new trans to handle the additional power... ... maybe 450 now!!New transmission is 5690 with input shaft minus 1000 for the core that gets returned. They would not warranty their transmission with their 2 year old 5-Star convertor with 20K miles. They said they could dyno test my convertor and ship back to me,but still wouldn't warranty the transmission without a new convertor.



I called Dave Goerend this morning,based on searches here and Lloyd at Mid-Atl,and got a quote for a new transmission with input shaft and triple disk convertor. Sitting down?... ... . $4450 including shipping both ways!!3 year 100K mile warranty. I spent about 35min. on the phone with Dave about all the specifics and then bought it afterwards.



Alan

 

[LBARTLETT]

I love my Goerend!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ttbird]

I love my Goerend!!!!!!!!!!

Me too!!!

 

[MA2LA]

Mines being built right now. I wasn't lucky enought to order mine before my trans died but ohwell. i went with the bilit flex and output just to make sure

 

[bmoeller]

Me three!

 

[WILLD420]

Built my own a couple years ago. I just didn't have the coin to have a pro do it. Not nearly as good I'm sure, but it turns the wheels.

I was looking hard at some ATS stuff, but everything I read positive, there were 3 things negative. I made a few phone calls to them and asked some questions, and their call service sucked so bad I never looked at their products again.

Sad to say, I may feel the same way about BD after some recent dealings. We shall see.

Funny. With all the Cummins transmissions in this country, that there are only 3 or 4 places that everyone goes to for products and information. It's not rocket science, but there are so many bad shops out there that it's amazing.

 

[AClayton]

Myself,I do not want to accept the fact that my $1300 5-star is indeed bad. I pulled the pan and show no signs excessive wear in the sump. It seems like a bad convertor... . a bad 5-star?This convertor was marketed to be the best 2 years ago... . boasting 2000ft. lbs!!I read in Diesel Power that Jimmy Dale Smith ran the Ats and his drag truck was over 1200hp!!I am not bashing here because I don't know for certain that it is bad... . I will find out next week when Mid-Atl. swaps trannies. When i bought the upgrades,truck was at 300 rear wheel... . I have added performance upgrades that push me to the 450-500 mark. This is the reason for upgrading now before I grenade parts and cost me more money in the long run. But when the suspected weak link in the powertrain is the venerable 5-star,well, that just changes everything.





Alan

 

[MA2LA]

I was going to have a local shop that has built stuff for me before do all the work but the rep dave has with his trans and the way he is said to stand behind his stuff made the choice easier. the worst part is the wait.

 

[AClayton]

How long have you had to wait?



Alan

 

[MA2LA]

I ordered it over a week ago and hopefully it will be shiping today. it could be worse, I fly out sat for a week out west so being down a little longer wount kil me.

 

[AClayton]

Ordered mine Monday... . Denise took the order and didn't specify a time. I'll just call the 1st of the week and see what's up. My truck still rolls as long as I accelerate carefully. I swear it is the convertor though..... it goes great when the convertor is locked but when accelerating from a stop and until shifting into 3rd when convertor locks,it is just plain loose.





Alan

 

[Gene Heck]

This will have nothing to do with any certain brand.

There are 2 possibilities I can think of

1. The converter stator sprag bearing is slipping.

If the sprag bearing aka an overrunning clutch in the stator isn't holding it will let the stator slip backwards. If it does this the flow of oil can't be redirected to multiply the torque output. It will make the "vehicle" seem like a real dog.

2. The converter stator sprag bearing is seized.

If the bearing is froze or stuck the stall test below will be normal but the acceleration will be poor and will be difficult to maintain cruise speed.

On heavy duty converters they are bolted together and can be disassembled and the bearing can be replaced. On a welded converter the only thing that you can do is to do the basics, first make sure the engine is in tune and isn't having it's own mechanical problem. If this checks out then you do a stall test to see what the rpm stops at. Every oem trans manufacturer has these specs for their engine trans combo. If the sprag is not holding the rpm at stall will be low and the truck will feel like a real dog when accelerating. However, when cruising speed is attained or the converter locks up the truck will seem normal. If the bearing is froze or stuck the stall test will be normal but the acceleration will be poor and it will take more throttle to maintain cruise speed. Since all torque converters have a sprag bearing and stator it can happen to any of them. Of course on an automotive welded converter the only thing you can do is replace the converter.

Rereading your original post it seems like number 1 is most likely since your oil seems good. Number 2 also will cause your oil to get hotter than normal if you drive very far.

 

[FFL8N]

Can someone tell me the differences internally between say, ATS, South Coast, BD and a Goerend? I am very confused when it comes to transmission stuff. I contacted Dave at Goerend a while back and was told I need the big daddy. Billet input and output (output if I intend to do any racing) stuff. I am looking at making around 500 to 550 hp and I was quoted over 6,000. 00

 

[SUrich]

I found a guy that builds converters in Denver, CO. He actually is building the stators for Sun Coast. I bought my converter from him at a reasonable price, better than ats or bd, and it is awesome. No slippage and better fuel economy.

 

[LBARTLETT]

FFL8N, with those kind of numbers you probably are looking at $6k, Goerend warranties for a long period of time and alot of miles, it takes some "beef" to handle those kind of numbers and not see the transmission again, especially if it was abused.



I'm sure not saying you would do that, I'm only saying Dave builds a product to handle the extremes so with that kind of hp it's going to cost alot of $$$

 

[GCroyle]

Anyone that knows me knows that I am not an A/T fan or expert, nuf ced.



But, I'd like to compliment Gene Hess for his write up on your symptoms, reads like this ain't Gene's first A/T experience.



Nice response Gene.

 

[Eric_ATS]

AClayton, I think there is almost definitely a misunderstanding. First and foremost, we would absolutely warranty the transmission for the full five years behind our torque converter. Second, you may potentially have a torque converter issue, in which case it would by all means be covered under warranty. We probably wouldn't run it on the dyno, because cutting it open would tell us all we need to know & allow us to be sure that there's no debris inside from your transmission failing without contaminating the dyno. Regardless of what was found after we cut it open, we would refurbish the converter completely during reassembly.



I am certain there's a misunderstanding somewhere, maybe just too many options being thrown around? A transmission w/ billet input would be less than $3500 shipped round-trip w/o core.



I'm not trying to bash anybody, so please don't take it that way. I'd like the chance to talk about this with you if possible, either on the phone or PM or e-mail - whatever works for you if you wouldn't mind. At the very least, if you do have a torque converter issue I'd like to get that resolved for you.

 

[Gene Heck]

Thanks Gary for the compliment. I am basically a gear rower like you too but I have an auto in my 96 cause of wife issues. I guess they have their place, pushing snow comes to mind. (The truck with the auto, not the wife. )

I do have a back round in industrial/agriculture heavy duty hydraulic trans applications and when I said that you could unbolt the converter halves and replace the sprag bearing in the converter, yes I have done that routine a few times. But as I said all converters work basically the same only that with an automotive application you usually just replace the converter unless you have the means to cut the weld apart and repair and reassemble it. Not many people have that type of equipment at their disposal.

After I reread my post I should have said his post #11 instead of his "original post" as I did. Post #11 is almost a dead give away for a bad converter stator sprag bearing. Doing a stall test would help confirm this.

As I said before I'm not pointing at anyone since the fundamentals of torque converter operation are the same for all.

Regards,

Gene

 

[Harlacher]

Can't believe how lucky this post is for me. My truck is having transmission/TC problems and I am trying to decide which way to go when I get the money saved up. I am pushing close to 500 horse and the BD TC/valve body/Torque lock and controller won't hold any more. I have serious leakage and slipage and want to put in a bullet proof transmission this time. Gorend is just down the road from me (less than 50 miles) so the choice should be easy. However, I have heard such good things about ATS that I think I should go with them. Gorend guarentees for two years while ATS has a five year warranty. The ATS level 6 package is eight thousand plus; a lot of money but I am so tired of tranmission problems. The BD setup has been fairly good but I just don't think they can match what ATS has. How hard is it to make everything work together if I do the work myself? I have pulled trannys before but the adjustments sound like they might be a little over my head. Has anyone installed the ATS package with good results or should I have it done professionaly? My truck will still move but I don't think it has many miles left.

 

[GCroyle]

Gene,



In my earlier years clutch position, we also did some convertor rebuilding for OES for one of the Big 3. Cut em open, wash, sort, inspect, reweld, inspect, etc. I still don't know exactly how they work, seen pictures of bolted units.



I prefer to row. But I do own 3 units with A/T but one will be converted to M/T.



Back to your regular programming.



Good luck to AClayton, nice response from ATS, I'm out of here.