Going to the dealer for injector diagnosis.....

[CCiatteo]

I've been noticing a slight haze at take off over the last month, combined with a short period of white smoke immediately after initial start-up in the morning. The haze is worse on some days than others, even on the same tank of fuel (power service silver at every fillup). I run the balwin filter in the OEM can along with the Donaldson filter on the GDP kit, but that was only from 89,000 to present. Who knows what was going on prior to that. The smarty jr is set on economy, so I'm not doing anything robust with respect to fueling. I do track my mileage and have never been able to do better than low 16's, normal is mid 15's and have noticed a general downward trend over the last 3000 miles? Oil level is solid, not up or down by any measurable amount that I see. Coolant tank is half full and holding steady. The smoke at start up is definitely white and doesn't smell like oil, but not sure what raw unburnt diesel would smell like either? The oil cap doesn't bounce, it just vibrates and slides off. So I'm really thinking its injectors and have an appointment at the dealer, just to be sure.

What specifically should they be doing (or not doing) and should I be getting printouts or something? If its an injector, I intend on doing all of them. Injectors look to be a straight forward job, so this is just for confirmation and to be sure its not something stupid and hopefully not something catastrophic. I was quoted $115/hour for diagnosis, reasonable?

Thanks
Chris

 

[MarkEkberg]

Unburnt fuel will make you gag and burn your eyes.

 

[rscurtis]

Do you have an '04, or an '04.5 with the "600" engine. IIRC, they didn't start as clean as the 305 engine or get near as good mileage.

 

[jgillott]

Here is a link to a similar thread I started last fall.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...n-t-want-to-be-left-out?highlight=didn't+left

Several rounds of SeaFoam injector cleaner and following sag2's suggested procedure cleaned mine up and it has been fine for the last 4000 miles. You may want to try cleaning yours before you take it in.

 

[cerberusiam]

If they are doing the correct diagnosis procedures you should get a print out of cylinder contribution tests percentages, rpm drop on each cylinder with a kill test, and an injector return flow amount for all injectors combined.

What happens frequently is they just pull the injectors and send them for testing at the cheapest place they can find and you end knowing no more than what you did before they charged you $115 per hour. Find out what they are going to do first before agreeing. The above tests are the minimum I would accept for a competent diagnosis.

 

[CCiatteo]

Unburnt fuel will make you gag and burn your eyes.

I don't gag, but it is along these lines, so it probably is fuel.

Do you have an '04, or an '04.5 with the "600" engine. IIRC, they didn't start as clean as the 305 engine or get near as good mileage.

'04.5 model, I should update my signature to reflect this.

If they are doing the correct diagnosis procedures you should get a print out of cylinder contribution tests percentages, rpm drop on each cylinder with a kill test, and an injector return flow amount for all injectors combined.

What happens frequently is they just pull the injectors and send them for testing at the cheapest place they can find and you end knowing no more than what you did before they charged you $115 per hour. Find out what they are going to do first before agreeing. The above tests are the minimum I would accept for a competent diagnosis.

Good to know when I drop it off tomorrow night. I'll be able to have an informed conversation with the service writer, so I make sure I get real information to make an informed decision.

Is it common or even possible for an injector to function poorly, intermittenly?

 

[cerberusiam]

Is it common or even possible for an injector to function poorly, intermittenly?

Yes, that is what makes it so hard to diagnose at times. It would be dead easy to find if the injector just quit with any issue but that never happens. They will stick intermittently depending on temp, fuel, or usage. Miss at an idle and run at rpms, or, miss under the right load and fine the rest of the time.

 

[CCiatteo]

Well I dropped it off and they seemed to think it would take about an hour to run the diagnostics and they were familiar with the tests I brought up. I made it clear that I don't just want a phone call saying "its needs injectors". I told them I want the reasoning and numbers behind that conclusion. So we will see. I'll follow up when I get the scoop.

 

[CCiatteo]

This whole situation has gone off the rails at this point. After dropping the truck off Wednesday night and having made an appointment to do so, I figured I'd have a call by the end of the day Thursday with some information and possibly a diagnosis or at least some possible explanations for the smoke at start up. Well I called them at 5pm or so after getting out of work and was put on hold for 10 minutes etc, finally I get the service writer I'd been dealing with through the entire process to this point, and the conversation starts with:

"Do you know you have a severed rear brake line?" I'm immediately thinking frayed/stretched/nicked parking brake cable, because I drove the truck to the dealer, so a "severed" hydraulic brake line and loss of braking would be something I might notice, followed by my next thought of why the heck are you going through the truck when all I asked for was some injector diagnostics?

The service writer then makes the claim that the truck is a "race truck" and has a "propane kit" installed along with "race injectors"? I bought the truck used off another Dodge Dealer's lot, so anything is possible,but I am certain there is no propane kit on the truck, but maybe there is remnants of one tucked up underneath the truck somewhere? So I head straight to the dealer to have the conversation face to face.

Once at the dealer, I decide I'm gonna play dumb and see if this guy knows his left hand from his right hand or if he's just an idiot pushing parts and services? So he walks me out onto the shop floor to talk with the tech, who is clearly not interested in having the conversation at all, and says yeah the truck has a propane kit installed with extra fuel lines going to the turbo? And that the intercooler has some sort of "blanket" on it? The tech then says the my smoke is because the factory transfer pump is failing. At this point I said what about the injector kill test, return flow tests etc. He says the injectors are "race" injectors and are at 120% duty cycle, but no printouts to demonstrate this. Still playing dumb at this point, I said where is the truck and show me the propane kit and stuff. The service writer (not the tech) with flashlight in hand walks me out to the truck. I immediately see the puddle of brake fluid beneath the rear diff. He says the line is severed at the junction block on the top of the rear. I looked best I could and maybe the line is rusted and ruptured, NJ is horrendous with salt and brine on the roads, the truck is 10 years old, so maybe it was just coincedence on the brake line??

But now is where it gets comical, service writer opens the door and says "see all these gauges they aren't factory", I said "Really?, but they match the factory dash perfectly?" He said "yeah they do, but they are for racing, this was a race truck" Keep in mind I just installed these Autometer gauges (pyro, boost, fuel pressure, transmission temp.) less than 2 months ago. Next he pops the hood, and says "see these lines" pointing to and actually grabbing the lines for my Amsoil bypass oil filter setup and says "these are going down and feeding extra fuel to the turbo" Next he points to the GDP Kit fuel filter kit and says "see this is the propane set up" and again he actually grabs the -3 line I have plumbed from output side of the filter head over to the firewall where the gauge sending unit is, and says "this is the feed line for the propane, and this solenoid is the trigger" At that point I said "WOW, you gotta be kidding me?" he says no, this truck "is probably faster than a corvette" "it has 1200 cc injectors in it for he propane kit".

I was floored. I wasn't sure whether to laugh out loud, cry or run like hell. I opted for run like hell.

Questions:

Could a weak fuel pump, if it is weak, (I see between 7-12 psi on the output side of the GDP kit) cause smoke or haze? I have never seen the fuel pump mentioned as a cause for this. I still have the canister mounted fuel pump, not sure if it is original or not (I think not, but who knows for sure).

Can the dealer scan tool tell if there are non-stock injectors installed in the truck, based on readings they see? This could be a possibility as I did buy the truck used, maybe there are a set of hotter injectors in the truck and I have no idea? When I asked the service writer for the printouts from the injector diagnostics, he said they have no ability to write/store/data log a file and print them out, you can only see them on the scanner in real time, that sounds like a load of pooh as well.

So long story short, I had to authorize the brake line fix cause the truck was un-driveable and I couldn't prove they did it, but told them to do nothing else and that I was likely going to unload the truck, so don't do anything other than fix the brake line. I ask again about the injector tests and the smoke at start up before leaving. The service writer assured me the problem was a weak fuel pump causing that smoke. Ok, I leave its now 7:30 at night, I go home. Phone rings at 8:30, its the service writer, tells me "the labor for the brake line is 10+/- hours cause they have to replace the main line from the front of the truck all the way to the rear of he truck and have to drop the tank to do so and with the tank down I'd be silly not install the upgraded in-tank pump to fix the smoke issue? There would be no additional labor, only pay for the part $400." I said go ahead, not because I think it will solve the smoke, but because it is a known weak point and the in-tank pump seems to be generally reliable and an upgrade to the canister set up.

At this point I don't feel I am any closer to a diagnosis than I was $1700 dollars ago (300 for the line, 400 for pump, 1000 in labor). But look at the bright side, I'm so lucky, that my brake line failed while it was at the dealership and not while I was driving the truck only minutes before........talk about lucky........what are the Vegas odds on that scenario?

I'm sick.

 

[cerberusiam]

I am saving this for future reference, so I can LMFWAO every time I think I have problems. All I can say is, OH MY............ :{

No, if you are holding 7-10 psi at the CP-3 inlet that isn't causing the smoke, rough, idle, etc.

No, it is impossible to tell from cylinder contribution tests what size the injectors are. It extremly hard to tell if it is a performance injector even with it on the bench. These clowns couldn't tell a CR injector from 12V injector if it was in front of them.

No, they would not know a 1200 cc injector if it bit them on the back of their front. They obviously don't know a propane kit from an oil bypass system so it follows they probbaly don't know a lot more.

Yes, a competent operator can print out the contribution tests, kill tests, etc. It follows that these so called service people are so incompetent they can't even figure out how to PRINT.

I would not trust them to wash the truck let alone work on brake lines, fuel pumps, or anything else that is remotely connected to the vehicle running and driving.

I would have driven the truck home, bad brake lines and all, cuz that bunch is NOT to be trusted with anything. I would not let them put the in-tank pump in because they likely screw up the install then blame the "race" truck for a failure.

Sorry for your luck, and, you should have taken your truck when you ran.

 

[Bill Stockard]

This whole situation has gone off the rails at this point. After dropping the truck off Wednesday night and having made an appointment to do so, I figured I'd have a call by the end of the day Thursday with some information and possibly a diagnosis or at least some possible explanations for the smoke at start up. Well I called them at 5pm or so after getting out of work and was put on hold for 10 minutes etc, finally I get the service writer I'd been dealing with through the entire process to this point, and the conversation starts with:

"Do you know you have a severed rear brake line?" I'm immediately thinking frayed/stretched/nicked parking brake cable, because I drove the truck to the dealer, so a "severed" hydraulic brake line and loss of braking would be something I might notice, followed by my next thought of why the heck are you going through the truck when all I asked for was some injector diagnostics?

The service writer then makes the claim that the truck is a "race truck" and has a "propane kit" installed along with "race injectors"? I bought the truck used off another Dodge Dealer's lot, so anything is possible,but I am certain there is no propane kit on the truck, but maybe there is remnants of one tucked up underneath the truck somewhere? So I head straight to the dealer to have the conversation face to face.

Once at the dealer, I decide I'm gonna play dumb and see if this guy knows his left hand from his right hand or if he's just an idiot pushing parts and services? So he walks me out onto the shop floor to talk with the tech, who is clearly not interested in having the conversation at all, and says yeah the truck has a propane kit installed with extra fuel lines going to the turbo? And that the intercooler has some sort of "blanket" on it? The tech then says the my smoke is because the factory transfer pump is failing. At this point I said what about the injector kill test, return flow tests etc. He says the injectors are "race" injectors and are at 120% duty cycle, but no printouts to demonstrate this. Still playing dumb at this point, I said where is the truck and show me the propane kit and stuff. The service writer (not the tech) with flashlight in hand walks me out to the truck. I immediately see the puddle of brake fluid beneath the rear diff. He says the line is severed at the junction block on the top of the rear. I looked best I could and maybe the line is rusted and ruptured, NJ is horrendous with salt and brine on the roads, the truck is 10 years old, so maybe it was just coincedence on the brake line??

But now is where it gets comical, service writer opens the door and says "see all these gauges they aren't factory", I said "Really?, but they match the factory dash perfectly?" He said "yeah they do, but they are for racing, this was a race truck" Keep in mind I just installed these Autometer gauges (pyro, boost, fuel pressure, transmission temp.) less than 2 months ago. Next he pops the hood, and says "see these lines" pointing to and actually grabbing the lines for my Amsoil bypass oil filter setup and says "these are going down and feeding extra fuel to the turbo" Next he points to the GDP Kit fuel filter kit and says "see this is the propane set up" and again he actually grabs the -3 line I have plumbed from output side of the filter head over to the firewall where the gauge sending unit is, and says "this is the feed line for the propane, and this solenoid is the trigger" At that point I said "WOW, you gotta be kidding me?" he says no, this truck "is probably faster than a corvette" "it has 1200 cc injectors in it for he propane kit".

I was floored. I wasn't sure whether to laugh out loud, cry or run like hell. I opted for run like hell.

Questions:

Could a weak fuel pump, if it is weak, (I see between 7-12 psi on the output side of the GDP kit) cause smoke or haze? I have never seen the fuel pump mentioned as a cause for this. I still have the canister mounted fuel pump, not sure if it is original or not (I think not, but who knows for sure).

Can the dealer scan tool tell if there are non-stock injectors installed in the truck, based on readings they see? This could be a possibility as I did buy the truck used, maybe there are a set of hotter injectors in the truck and I have no idea? When I asked the service writer for the printouts from the injector diagnostics, he said they have no ability to write/store/data log a file and print them out, you can only see them on the scanner in real time, that sounds like a load of pooh as well.

So long story short, I had to authorize the brake line fix cause the truck was un-driveable and I couldn't prove they did it, but told them to do nothing else and that I was likely going to unload the truck, so don't do anything other than fix the brake line. I ask again about the injector tests and the smoke at start up before leaving. The service writer assured me the problem was a weak fuel pump causing that smoke. Ok, I leave its now 7:30 at night, I go home. Phone rings at 8:30, its the service writer, tells me "the labor for the brake line is 10+/- hours cause they have to replace the main line from the front of the truck all the way to the rear of he truck and have to drop the tank to do so and with the tank down I'd be silly not install the upgraded in-tank pump to fix the smoke issue? There would be no additional labor, only pay for the part $400." I said go ahead, not because I think it will solve the smoke, but because it is a known weak point and the in-tank pump seems to be generally reliable and an upgrade to the canister set up.

At this point I don't feel I am any closer to a diagnosis than I was $1700 dollars ago (300 for the line, 400 for pump, 1000 in labor). But look at the bright side, I'm so lucky, that my brake line failed while it was at the dealership and not while I was driving the truck only minutes before........talk about lucky........what are the Vegas odds on that scenario?

I'm sick.

Unbelievable!! It sounds like the "big city-mega dealer" dealership I made the mistake of using only one time. The service writer told me that the warranty of my new (at the time) in warranty '00 Ram 3500 dually was in jeopardy because of the power booster on the turbo while pointing at the PacBrake. :-laf I've never darkened their door since!

Bill

 

[AllianceDiesel]

Wow I dont even know what to say. Why would fuel be piped into the turbo? Ok I have a bunch of questions but they are actually for the service writer and "mechanic". He doesnt deserve to be called a mechanic let alone a tech. When I worked for dodge we didnt care what you had on the pickup as long as you were cool and werent pushy with us ( only had a couple of people that deserved to get denied work).

Now onto your complaint, lift pump is actually measured in flow not pressure. If you have weak lift pump it will be issues wih falling on its face and you will have a check engine light for the lift pump (the code escapes me right now).

Honestly the way I find injectors is listening for knocking like an old 12 valve under load, vibrations in neutral at about 1700 rpms, revving the motor and the rpms should drop quickly without jumping. An injector return test is used more for hard starts. The 04.5 use a different piston bowl design which makes it harder to see a sticking injector.

What I have seen lately on my personal pickup and on a customers pickup at my shop right now is with the cruise on and coasting downhill, the pickup will jerk real bad and only with the cruise on. Once you kick it out of cruise, the jerking is gone. Also my pickup with miss at idle only and its a slight miss that will come and go. If I enable the high idle, the miss goes away.

 

[frank1]

Chris- was the dealer you took it to located on RT.1 in Lawrencville? Sounds like the same clowns I brought my 03' w/ speed transmission and said that the transmission was cracked due to it was a "plow and salt truck" (see my old transmission cracked?) thread. Total B.S! I had the transmission removed and sent it to Standard Transmission in Texas. Transmission was not cracked only the boot and the top where the stick shift had worn away! While the trans was at Standard had them install the rear lube kit they offer. Truck and transmission have run great since then! Those guys are plain out thieves!!!!! A very good shop that does injector testing is located in Moorestown,NJ Garden state Diesel. They rebuilt my injector pump on My 92' These guys know what they are doing!856-914-9797 ask for Rick. Good luck. Frank

 

[sag2]

Since this is an 04 and they may have used the DRBIII there is no way to print. I suppose they could have taken a photo of the screen. If they used the DRBIII emulator on wi-Tech they could have used the screen print function but most dealers do not have printers on all the computers in the service department.

 

[CCiatteo]

Wow I dont even know what to say. Why would fuel be piped into the turbo? Ok I have a bunch of questions but they are actually for the service writer and "mechanic". He doesnt deserve to be called a mechanic let alone a tech. When I worked for dodge we didnt care what you had on the pickup as long as you were cool and werent pushy with us ( only had a couple of people that deserved to get denied work)......

I have been totally relaxed and even compliant......but that is quickly changing.

Chris- was the dealer you took it to located on RT.1 in Lawrencville? Sounds like the same clowns I brought my 03' w/ speed transmission and said that the transmission was cracked due to it was a "plow and salt truck" (see my old transmission cracked?) thread. Total B.S! I had the transmission removed and sent it to Standard Transmission in Texas. Transmission was not cracked only the boot and the top where the stick shift had worn away! While the trans was at Standard had them install the rear lube kit they offer. Truck and transmission have run great since then! Those guys are plain out thieves!!!!! A very good shop that does injector testing is located in Moorestown,NJ Garden state Diesel. They rebuilt my injector pump on My 92' These guys know what they are doing!856-914-9797 ask for Rick. Good luck. Frank

Same exact dealer!!!!! To call these guys thieves would be an insult to thieves everywhere.

I am saving this for future reference, so I can LMFWAO every time I think I have problems. All I can say is, OH MY............ :{

No, if you are holding 7-10 psi at the CP-3 inlet that isn't causing the smoke, rough, idle, etc.

No, it is impossible to tell from cylinder contribution tests what size the injectors are. It extremly hard to tell if it is a performance injector even with it on the bench. These clowns couldn't tell a CR injector from 12V injector if it was in front of them.

No, they would not know a 1200 cc injector if it bit them on the back of their front. They obviously don't know a propane kit from an oil bypass system so it follows they probbaly don't know a lot more.

Yes, a competent operator can print out the contribution tests, kill tests, etc. It follows that these so called service people are so incompetent they can't even figure out how to PRINT.

I would not trust them to wash the truck let alone work on brake lines, fuel pumps, or anything else that is remotely connected to the vehicle running and driving.

I would have driven the truck home, bad brake lines and all, cuz that bunch is NOT to be trusted with anything. I would not let them put the in-tank pump in because they likely screw up the install then blame the "race" truck for a failure.

Sorry for your luck, and, you should have taken your truck when you ran.

Since this is an 04 and they may have used the DRBIII there is no way to print. I suppose they could have taken a photo of the screen. If they used the DRBIII emulator on wi-Tech they could have used the screen print function but most dealers do not have printers on all the computers in the service department.

Thanks to everyone for the advice, and ya know what I dug deeper as a result of the advice. I went back up to the dealer unannounced (didn't call first) right after reading Cerb's post because deep down I had the same sentiments about pulling my truck out of that shop. I didn't because of the brake line issue and the its 20 degrees outside and I've got no where to tackle a job that involves dropping the tank.

My last conversation with the service writer on Friday night at 5pm indicated the part (not sure if the brake line or fuel system upgrade) was being overnighted, the truck was apart and I'd have the truck back today. I get up to the dealer and look in the yard through the fence, only to see my truck is parked in what looks to be the same exact spot? So I'm trying to be glass half full, and think maybe its done? Because other wise someone is lying to me and that ain't gonna go well. I go inside and the service writer recognizes me and says "whats up?" I say what's the status on the truck? he says lets go check with the tech, and proceeds to walk me out onto the shop floor. I'm thinking maybe this is good, job must be done, the truck is outside? So now picture this, its me, the service writer and the tech face to face to face......

Service writer: What's up with the 2004 Ram with the brake line and fuel system upgrade?
Tech: Nothing? The part is on backorder we can't locate one.
Me: (Looking directly at service writer) You told me the part was being overnighted? What the hell?
Tech: No overnight, no part, have to find a dealer that has one in stock first, AND that is willing to give it up.
Me: What!?!!! This ain't gonna work, I need the truck.

Remember service writer said truck was apart to me on the phone. Now I ASSUME the truck is apart and the tank is out of it sitting in the bed waiting for parts.

Tech to service writer: We need to get this guy a rental (not a courtesy car, but a rental).
Service writer: We don't have 3/4 ton 4x4 rentals?
Me: I don't want a rental, I want my truck fixed!
Service writer: Uh ok, I'll fast track it and get it in the shop immediately.
(I'm thinking how are you gonna do that if the part is on backorder??????)
Tech: The part is on backorder, like its not available and the truck is NOT APART YET. I didn't want to take it apart until the all the parts arrived? Can't afford to tie up a bay.
(I completely understand the tech's point of view, but the service writer and him need to get their web of lies in sync. I honestly think this thing is 100% on the service writer at this point.)
Me to service writer: What?! I have to check a few things and see what my options are at this point. I walk out.

So my phone dies (of course) and I realize my charger is in my truck, perfect, its a reason to go into the yard and take a close look in good light to see exactly what the hell is going on. I check in with the service writer and ask for the keys so I can get some things out of the truck, phone charger etc....he says go ahead, it should be unlocked. I climb under the truck to find that the brake line did indeed fail. Bad luck. Fortunately nobody got hurt. But the line that failed isn't the metal line, its the hydraulic line. The crimped band on the flexible side of the line must have been faulty because it is completely separated, and allowed the "rubber" side to be blown off from brake pressure. I can see the metal stem of the fitting still there. So now I'm like WTF?, the metal line doesn't need to be replaced, the hydraulic hose needs to be replaced. I storm back into the service area and tell the service writer to grab the tech and meet me at the truck. I show both of them and they agree, the metal line is fine, only the hydraulic line is faulty. They say it was dark and they couldn't see it clearly when they first looked at it. At this point I demand they drop whatever they are doing, pull my truck in and get to work on the it. So now we are back in the office and I'm like you guys are not authorized to do any work other than R&R the hydraulic line at the rear. Not fuel pump, no dropping the tank, nothing.

I was of the mind to pull the truck, but screw them, why should I lay in my driveway in sub freezing weather with more bad weather headed my direction fighting with a brake line? I'm gonna hold their feet to the fire and make them work for it. If they screw that fitting up, I'll just pull the truck out and piece in a new line from somewhere forward of the tank to the rear transition point.

I am not even sure they even had the truck in the shop or ran injector diagnostics at all, let alone if they have the ability to print reports or not. Unfortunately, the brake line failed, and maybe they didn't see it was the hydraulic line side that failed, but they just started spinning a web of lies and saw $$$$ and that is total BS. Dodge should be ashamed if this is how their network of dealers operates. Once the truck is back in my possession, the letter I write to the dealer service manager and copy to RAM and the BBB, they'll be lucky if they still are allowed to have a dealership, let alone a job.

Stay Tuned......

 

[TCDiesel]

There are only a XX amount of Dealership that have the knowledge and the Resources NECESSARY for HPCR diagnose , in most cases they will perform unnecessary repairs at the owners expense. WITech or the DRB III is useless without proper support to control the entire Injection system....I have stated this 100s of times, Balance or contribution %/tests ( checked in vehicle) are misleading change regularly and can be manipulated. With Proper tools and equipment you can accurately check injector back leakage rates (In vehicle). If these rates check out the injectors must be removed finger printed and checked, after that the fluctuation changes can be measured when tests are correctly performed.

 

[CKESSEL]

This is the kind of feces that happens when the dealers push out the knowlegable, good techs [ read : more costly] and replace them with dummies. Same goes with the writers. The dealer owner and the GM are the main culprits in this trying to fatten up their wallets at the expense of the customers. I know. Ex dealer employee [parts] myself. Same kind of ****e affected me too!

 

[cerberusiam]

Don't sweat the LP problem if you have a guage. When the pressure drops below 3 psi while driving then worry about a fix. Pressure is flow when measured like that. The problem is likely injectors but please find a competent shop to do the dianosis.

It is not only Dodge, the problem is in every dealer regardless of affiliation. My sons 2014 Ford service truck with 27k miles decided to die 500 miles from home. It would not start until he put it neutral and it was stuck in 4 the gear when it did start and drive. He drops it at the nearest dealer in Shreveport and tells them it is stuck in 4th gear. Service writer comes back and says the DPF is plugged and likely will need a new one and maybe sensors and such. He has to explain again he has already regenned it twice and nothing wrong with the engine systems. The codes indicate a TCM failure and the only problem is the trans is stuck in limp mode. AFTER they hook up the diagnostics and DO THEIR JOB CORRECTLY they decide it is really the TCM that is the problem and of course they have to order it. Still sitting there, 10 days later after multiple calls to see what the issue is.

Utter insanity.

 

[MAshley]

Wow... :--)

 

[BIGNASTY]

Just like to thank you for reminding me why I don't take my truck back to the STEALERSHIPS for ANYTHING!!!

Would like to know if you don't mind what how much they ROBBED you for on this journey

Never mind I went back and re-read your ordeal that's wrong.