Gooseneck ball measurement location

[NScott]

I am going to weld on a 3/4" X 12" steel plate with a hole for a 2 5/16" ball on the frame of my 05 3500. I have already removed the dually pickup box and installed an all aluminum flatbed that looks great, but I can't find the recommended measurements from Dodge for the "back of cab to center of ball" or " ? inches in front of the center of the rear axle". I have been told by one bed manufacturer that Dodge recommends a measurement of 58" from the back of the cab to the center of the rear axle for the 3500's with Dually(pickup) boxes. I don't know if this is correct or not and haven't verified what I was told. If it is correct, I am still not sure exactly where to hold the tape on the back of the cab to get this measurement because the back of the cabs are curved. I suppose it would be measured from the center.

Anybody have any ideas or information about the correct location for the gooseneck ball?

 

[Cattletrkr]

4" to 6" in front of the center of the axle is good for most applications.

 

[NScott]

Will 1 1/2" in front of the rear axle get by? I called my welding shop tonight and they said that they had just welded the plate to the frame. I suppose it could be cut off with a parting wheel disc on a die grinder if I just have to, but I would rather not unless its going to be a real problem in handling, etc.

 

[Cattletrkr]

Not perfect, but it'll work.

 

[HBarlow]

NScott,



I purchased a CM (cmbeds.com Madill, OK) flatbed for my C&C. They are a very high volume truck bed manufacturer recently bought out by BigTex trailers, another powerhouse in the industry.



My CM bed came with a factory gooseneck pocket and ball. The location of the gooseneck ball is approximately 1 1/2" to 2" forward of the centerline of the rear axle. Yours at 1 1/2" should be perfect.



Fifth wheel manufacturers installation instructions advise the installer to install the hitch exactly over the centerline of the rear axle.

 

[Cattletrkr]

Fifth wheel manufacturers installation instructions advise the installer to install the hitch exactly over the centerline of the rear axle.

That may be true for 5th wheel I dunno, but GN hitches definently DO NOT go over the center of the axle. At least they're not supposed to. Some of the hitches we install only end up and inch or two in front, but most are in the 3-4 range.

I said 4-6 because that's where I'd like mine to be, but anything in front of center will get the job done. For heavier loads, it helps to have it a little further forward.

 

[HBarlow]

Our Dodges with Cummins engines are already pretty close to maximum front axle weight rating without transferring the load forward.

 

[RVTRKN]

Forward of the rear axle and within 1 to 2 inches. The most accurate way is find rear axle center and go forward of it. HBarlow: I weighed mine loaded (hauling configuration & gear) with my B&W Elite series bed and the front (steer) axle weighed at #4740 with the GAWR #5200. Would that be enough (#460) for heavy loads on the rear axle, 1" forward?

 

[HBarlow]

Steve,



Was your fuel tank full? Any passengers in the truck?



With only 400 lbs. of margin and not knowing whether your fuel tank was full, one large passenger in the front passenger seat and the hitch weight of a heavy tandem dually flatbed gooseneck trailer loaded as many commercial haulers load them could easily overload the front axle of our trucks.

 

[RVTRKN]

Yes, my tank was full, with all necessary towing gear loaded, the only body was me in the truck. Have you weighed your front axle with your CM bed and gear?

 

[HBarlow]

Three adult male passengers in the truck would probably put the front axle at max axle weight without a heavy gooseneck trailer on the ball.



I made sure that my bed installer installed the fifth wheel rails centered over the rear axle. I don't want to shift weight to the front axle.

 

[Cattletrkr]

I made sure that my bed installer installed the fifth wheel rails centered over the rear axle. I don't want to shift weight to the front axle.

By all means go ahead and do whatever you want to your truck, but please stop spreading the stupidity.

CENTERED OVER THE AXLE IS WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.

End of discussion. It's wrong.

 

[HBarlow]

By all means go ahead and do whatever you want to your truck, but please stop spreading the stupidity.



CENTERED OVER THE AXLE IS WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.



End of discussion. It's wrong.

You're trying awfully hard to convince the forum you know what you're talking about but calling me stupid and writing the word "wrong" five time in capital letters is more juvenile than convincing. Do you have any facts or resources to back up your opinion?



Given the choice between the obvious facts such as the unloaded weight of the front axle of a 3500 pickup or cab and chassis with bed is around 4700# without a load on the bed and the factory specified maximum front axle weight rating is only 5200# and, as most understand, moving the hitch point six inches forward of the rear axle would shift more weight to the front axle and possibly overload it, or your unsubstantiated opinion I'm going to go with the facts every time. I mount hitches over the rear axle.



Reese/Drawtite, one of the oldest and largest hitch manufacturers in the industry advises buyers of their fifth wheel hitches to mount them over the rear axle.



As I posted earlier, CM Truck Beds in Madill, OK, a very large volume builder of aftermarket truck beds builds their beds with gooseneck ball pockets only a couple inches forward of the rear axle.



Maybe you should let Reese/Drawtite and CM know that they're "stupid" and "WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG" also. They'll be grateful for your wisdom, I'm sure.

 

[Cattletrkr]

Shifting some weight to the front axle is what makes pulling a GN or 5th wheel safe. W/O that weight transfer you lose steering control and handling is thrown off.

 

[HBarlow]

Please explain how you lose steering control and handling when the entire kingpin or gooseneck weight is placed directly over the rear axle.

 

[Cattletrkr]

Drive uphill.

 

[HBarlow]

I ran 400,000 miles in less than three years between Jan '05 and Nov '07 pulling RVs commerically. More than half, possibly as much as 3/4s of those were loaded miles and 1/2 of those loaded miles were towing fifth wheels with my Reese hitch centered over the drive axle per the manufacturer. I made more trips across I-80 on snow and ice than I care to remember. Some of those miles driven on snow and ice were up steep 6% or better grades out west. I experienced no loss of traction on the drive axle using highway Michelins and no loss of steering control or braking control.



I guess I'm not convinced I should have installed my fifth wheel forward of the axle.

 

[Cattletrkr]

Good for you. But you obviously know absolutely nothing about how to properly setup a tow rig.

You're so worried about overloading the front axle. Let me ask you this. Have you ever put anything in the bed of a pickup? Did you freak out then about where you put it? How much did it weigh? How much of that weight went on the front axle? Do you have any idea how much weight it takes to add 500lb to the front axle when that weight is only a couple inches in front of the rear axle?

 

[HBarlow]

I can't speak for the other readers on this thread but I'm sure learning a lot from you. Sure appreciate your experience and wisdom.

 

[EB]

Things are starting to get a little silly here.
Mine: Ball 1" ahead of axle. Much further and I wouldn't be able to turn with my trailer. (ball to back of bed, 4' 10") 80" from front of bed to center of ball.
Weights; empty with full fuel, front axle; 4740 lbs. , rear axle; 4880 lbs. Empty weight 9620.
Weight with empty trailer; front axle; 4780 lbs. , (only 40 lbs. more) Rear; 6380 lbs. Total empty wt. 17720.
Never had any problems with the handling at all, and I've been on some pretty ugly roads.