I have the 3200 rpm spring. Just wondering if anyone knows of others. What spring part numbers there are for different rpm limits? Maybe someone knows the governor limits of other VE pump applications?
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Governor Springs
- Thread starter desertrat1
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I don't have part #s but I took a long spring that was stiffer than the 3200 spring, I bent it and cut it to match the length of the stock and 3200 springs that I have. or I mean the 366 and 388 springs. I bought the long spring at home depo for $2. 00.
Yes it will rev higher than 4000rpm.
Yes it will rev higher than 4000rpm.
roadhawg, Something I will have to ckeck out. I was wondering what the old VW diesels were governed at. Could take the spring from one of them? They are easy to find in the junk yards.
You are nearing the relm of information of which is limited to people and or persons directly performing R&D.
One has to respect those who spend time and money to research/develop upgrades for any application.
Sorry, I will not say more. Perhaps others will. And yes, there are "other" applications for the VE pump at various RPM's and power levels.
GL
One has to respect those who spend time and money to research/develop upgrades for any application.
Sorry, I will not say more. Perhaps others will. And yes, there are "other" applications for the VE pump at various RPM's and power levels.
GL
Most of the books I have seen list the springs as part of a build kit for a certain CPL. The gov spring works in conjuntion with the gov weights to produce a defuel point and max rpm in a given application. Changing the springs, the weights, etc invalidates most of the info Bosch supplies. In other words you can mix and match to certian point to get the desired effect (R&D).
The VE pump at certain points with certain parts can be a little twitchy and very easily lock into a runaway condition. Just keep in mind when changing pump internals like springs there could some unwanted consequences.
Other than that, BOMB on.
The VE pump at certain points with certain parts can be a little twitchy and very easily lock into a runaway condition. Just keep in mind when changing pump internals like springs there could some unwanted consequences.
Other than that, BOMB on.
runaway condition
Any time I see that term or phrase, I think of a horse we had when I was a kid. Great big Tennessee walker. She would get the bits clenched in her mouth and buddy, you better hold on. Runaway wasn't the half of it. I think when the VE gets the governor clenched down real good, about the same thing happens.
I would sure like to know how far you can go but I believe I would want to have the pump on a test stand while trying those edge of the envelope tweaks.
Lets us know how it blows, pardon me goes.
James
Any time I see that term or phrase, I think of a horse we had when I was a kid. Great big Tennessee walker. She would get the bits clenched in her mouth and buddy, you better hold on. Runaway wasn't the half of it. I think when the VE gets the governor clenched down real good, about the same thing happens.
I would sure like to know how far you can go but I believe I would want to have the pump on a test stand while trying those edge of the envelope tweaks.
Lets us know how it blows, pardon me goes.
James
I was unaware I was disrespecting anyone. I didn't think that a $20 spring part# was classified info to an elite few.
That said, all I was wanting to know is if there is other spring options so I can rev my motor higher. I'm sure there are others that would like to know as well. The second gen. guys have a 4000 gsk. Surely there is something similar for a 1st gen. VE.
I would be willing to try one. And if I blow it up, I'll be having fun doing it.
desertrat1 said:
Call these folks they list a 4000 GSK, not sure if it will work on the VE?
http://www.piersdiesel.com/DodgeUSPrice.htm
desertrat, go to www.diesel-central.com. 1st gen forum, look up KTA-Cummins, go to his readers rigs, you should find dyno sheets of his. He has the 3200 rpm spring (at least I know for sure, hell may have one bigger?), anyways, the dyno sheet shows him fueling, revving, HP'ing, torqueing, well into the 4200rpm range give or take. Would you reckon thats high enough for you? If not, try a V8 diesel. Just cause its called a 3200 gov spring, don't mean you can't take the motor higher. 60# valve springs I think are recommended beyond 3600 or so. Alan, I think the 4000gsk is just for the P-pump.
I don't believe you are disrespecting anyone at all. However with an open ended question similar to yours you will not get a response from someone who has R&D a particular pump mod such as "fooling" with springs and weights etc. This costs a large investment in terms of time and money.
Think of it this way. . You'll have to buy a pump test stand... . or pay for someone to perform the tests. This is very expensive. My local pump shop requires 225. 00 to test one pump. You have to install it and run the engine some time. Then work with other mods on the engine/pump again. Often this requires another pump test or several pump tests.
The information these people or persons give out will be to a limited few. On occasion the general public will have access to some of this.
In your particular situation, I doubt that anyone who has R&D'ed a worthwhile mod in terms of springs and or weights will come out and tell you what exactly you want to know. That includes the people who have access to said info. They/we/I respect what they have entrusted us with.
Keep this in mind when asking questions about any particular mods. You are always welcome to ask, but sometimes you may not recieve much of a response. If you have someone modify your injection pump, you probably will have little idea as to what they did exactly.
Hope I have not confused the issue.
GL
Think of it this way. . You'll have to buy a pump test stand... . or pay for someone to perform the tests. This is very expensive. My local pump shop requires 225. 00 to test one pump. You have to install it and run the engine some time. Then work with other mods on the engine/pump again. Often this requires another pump test or several pump tests.
The information these people or persons give out will be to a limited few. On occasion the general public will have access to some of this.
In your particular situation, I doubt that anyone who has R&D'ed a worthwhile mod in terms of springs and or weights will come out and tell you what exactly you want to know. That includes the people who have access to said info. They/we/I respect what they have entrusted us with.
Keep this in mind when asking questions about any particular mods. You are always welcome to ask, but sometimes you may not recieve much of a response. If you have someone modify your injection pump, you probably will have little idea as to what they did exactly.
Hope I have not confused the issue.
GL
"Keep this in mind when asking questions about any particular mods. You are always welcome to ask, but sometimes you may not recieve much of a response. If you have someone modify your injection pump, you probably will have little idea as to what they did exactly. "
This is precisely why I haven't had anything done to my pump. I won't mention any names, but one of the major vendors here would not tell me what they were going to do to my pump. If I am going to pay $1400 for a performance pump rebuild, I want to know what is going to be done to it. It was like they were going to perform some voodoo ritual and then sprinkle some majic dust on my pump and it was going to make more power.
Right now I am working with one of my coworker's brother who owns a pump shop. He hasn't had much call for souped up VE's. He spends most of his time working on P pumps. I got a Cummins cpl book and we are testing pump parts from other cpl's as well as manufacturers besides Cummins that use the VE. He has some nice Bosch books that list all kinds of specs. It's not a major expense because he has a lot VE's on the shelf. Once I get a good combination together, you can bet I will be giving out part numbers for what works. There are plenty of people who are not going to try this themselves and they can go and buy the pump and bolt it on, but I want to know why it works.
So far we have been messing with the 4b in my bronco. It sounds pretty cool at 4000.
Barry
This is precisely why I haven't had anything done to my pump. I won't mention any names, but one of the major vendors here would not tell me what they were going to do to my pump. If I am going to pay $1400 for a performance pump rebuild, I want to know what is going to be done to it. It was like they were going to perform some voodoo ritual and then sprinkle some majic dust on my pump and it was going to make more power.
Right now I am working with one of my coworker's brother who owns a pump shop. He hasn't had much call for souped up VE's. He spends most of his time working on P pumps. I got a Cummins cpl book and we are testing pump parts from other cpl's as well as manufacturers besides Cummins that use the VE. He has some nice Bosch books that list all kinds of specs. It's not a major expense because he has a lot VE's on the shelf. Once I get a good combination together, you can bet I will be giving out part numbers for what works. There are plenty of people who are not going to try this themselves and they can go and buy the pump and bolt it on, but I want to know why it works.
So far we have been messing with the 4b in my bronco. It sounds pretty cool at 4000.
Barry
HTML:
It was like they were going to perform some voodoo ritual and then sprinkle some majic dust on my pumpI agree... . I wouldn't care if they never told me exactly what they did... but I would at least want to hear... "well, we mixed and matched some internal parts from other VE applications, and we modified a few internal parts".
They wouldn't have to give away their trade sectrets so to speak, but I would want to know at least that much. They wouldn't have to supply all of the details, just enough to get me to believe thay knew what they were doing.
I have a lot of respect for R&D and the $$ and time it costs and what it is worth in the market to a business... I live it every day... and there is always a way to answer a question as above without giving away the store.
Jay
I would've been more than satisfied with the response you gave Jay. Even though I am certain this is all that is being done, I was made to feel like it was top-secret.
Another side of this is all of our trucks are more than ten years old. That fact alone means that we are not in the forefront of R&D. The amount of money that someone is going to make from their "VE pump secrets" is limited at best.
Another side of this is all of our trucks are more than ten years old. That fact alone means that we are not in the forefront of R&D. The amount of money that someone is going to make from their "VE pump secrets" is limited at best.
desertrat1... you aren't really dissing anyone with your question. Yes, it is true that somemods for the VE are not disclosed due to the competitive nature of the sport but that has always been a given...
When using the governor spring replacement mentioned above you can set the pump up to rev well into the "risky" zone. (anything over about 3400 RPM)
It is possible to go even higher but the risk increases significantly.
Remember, the top end of the engine is moving into the 'high risk' are because at those higher RPM's the possibility of kissing a valve and/or piston becomes a real possibility. If you plan to run RPM values over, say, 3300 RPM regularly then your really should install a full set of heavy duty 60 lb springs. This will assure quick/solid valve closure and help to avoid colision of moving parts.
Just as an example, when I installed my 3200 GS in my truck I did a high idle test in the driveway... . in the blink of an eye I had an RPM flare that took me up to 3800 RPM before I could back off the throttle.
You will need to tweak and tune you settings to make sure that you are able to stay in a max safe zone to avoid potential engine damage at those RPM's.
Does this help at all. . ???? If not let me know and I'll try to have another run at it and maybe make it a little more easy to understand.
regards, bob...
When using the governor spring replacement mentioned above you can set the pump up to rev well into the "risky" zone. (anything over about 3400 RPM)
It is possible to go even higher but the risk increases significantly.
Remember, the top end of the engine is moving into the 'high risk' are because at those higher RPM's the possibility of kissing a valve and/or piston becomes a real possibility. If you plan to run RPM values over, say, 3300 RPM regularly then your really should install a full set of heavy duty 60 lb springs. This will assure quick/solid valve closure and help to avoid colision of moving parts.
Just as an example, when I installed my 3200 GS in my truck I did a high idle test in the driveway... . in the blink of an eye I had an RPM flare that took me up to 3800 RPM before I could back off the throttle.
You will need to tweak and tune you settings to make sure that you are able to stay in a max safe zone to avoid potential engine damage at those RPM's.
Does this help at all. . ???? If not let me know and I'll try to have another run at it and maybe make it a little more easy to understand.
regards, bob...
:-laf I have heard those can be very uncomfortable. :-laf
Go ahead Pastor take all my HP. It was out here and I couldn't stop myself.
(I get to keep my torque, right?)
Go ahead Pastor take all my HP. It was out here and I couldn't stop myself.
(I get to keep my torque, right?)
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Yip,,,, torque is sacred and non-removable. . .....
"... cream for that... . " Ooooooo, that's gonna leave marks. .
You guys are catching up wayyyyy too quick... I gotta go back to smarty-aleck school. .
pb. .
..... "... cream for that... . " Ooooooo, that's gonna leave marks. .
You guys are catching up wayyyyy too quick... I gotta go back to smarty-aleck school. .
pb. .
Pastor, I have fresh head with heavy duty valve springs, titanium keepers & retainers, fire rings, head studs, and other goodies. Just waiting for some extra time to put it on. I figure that should fix the valve float at higher RPMs. Just wanting to take advantage of the new head by letting the pump rev the motor a bit higher.
I was just hoping for an easy upgrade like the 3200 spring is. Just switch my 3200 spring out for whatever spring allows it to go higher. May not be that easy???
I know I should probably leave it alone, but what would be the fun in that?
I was just hoping for an easy upgrade like the 3200 spring is. Just switch my 3200 spring out for whatever spring allows it to go higher. May not be that easy???
I know I should probably leave it alone, but what would be the fun in that?
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
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Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
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