2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Greasey/oily rear drum & Brakes on 98 Dodge

[HerbW]

My brakes have been poorly working for a while. I had put new front rotors and ceramic disk pads on it recently. When I finally got to the left rear drum, it's got a line of black grease looking muck in the drum inside and everywhere else. Is there a way to tell if it's from my axle oil seal or caused from brake fluid mixing with brake dust?

It's a 1998 2500 4x4 Dodge diesel.

I want to do it right. Thanks, Herb

 

[fest3er]

If the L/R brake has been grabbing excessively well, it's brake fluid. If the L/R brake has not worked at all, it's axle lube. My R/R was doing this a couple months ago; I replaced the axle (hub) seal and all is well again. (Wait. No. 'All' isn't right. The brake is working again. )

 

[GCroyle]

Have you checked the brake reservoir level? Then check the diff oil level, low?



If you can get any of the fluid on a probe or your finger tip, I bet DOT 3 would rinse off with water and GearLube will not. Does TDR agree?



I just did the rear brakes on my '97 3500 and it was the hub seal for me.

 

[SRath]

If you go after your rear brakes, take a real good look at your parking brake cables ahead of time. If they're like mine, they're corroded trash. It might also be a good time to read up on swapping those dodge wheel cylinders for the larger chevy ones and improving your rear braking.



When I frst bought my used 96 and experienced very weak rear brakes, I discovered one side had been assembled with the short shoe in front and the other had the short shoe in back. The original owner assured me that no one had ever had those drums off. So I always like to ask if anyone else has ever found their rear brakes factory-assembled the same way?

 

[SHobbs]

Last time I had a greasy mess inside the drum it was the hub seal that went bad.

 

[barryg41]

I blew a R/R brake cylinder. The brakes were squissie (is that a word) but I knew something was not right. Checked the reservoir and yep it was less than before. It was sticky but washed easy with brake cleaner.



Only had to take off one spring to get the cylinder out. It was very easy to do.



It took longer to spin the brake hub off than change the parts out.



Unlike Fest3er, I had no grabbing, it just took more pedal to stop it.

 

[jelag]

Brake fluid is water soluble so if it washes off with water its brake fluid, if you have to clean it with solvent, than its an oil base... Gary's right... if it was brake fluid it wouldn't take long for the reservoir to be low and your brake warning light to come on... as well as a spongy pedal...

Clean all the parts with a solvent, than re-wash them with denatured alcohol or other chemical that will leave them chemical free... we'd through the parts in a Hot Water Washer and clean them after the solvent...

If you turn the drums make sure you clean the turned surface with denatured alcohol to remove all the left over metal debris from the turning process that will shorten the life of the shoes... .

Srath has a great point. . most wheel cylinders get bad pits in the metal and the cups that run over them usually will leak if they are not rebuilt or replaced... on my BIL's 1 ton we did the wheel cylinder swap... he'd only see 25K miles of front pad life with a utility box on the truck... He noticed a good deal of brake improvement with the larger wheel cylinders and almost doubled the life of the pads... .

When you open a box of shoes... they used to have a short shoe and long shoe... the short shoe had a harder material (coefficient of friction) than the rear shoe... the mechanical property of shoe brakes has the front shoe taking the brunt of the force and pushing the rear shoe into the drum... . thus the rear shoe was softer and larger in surface area.....

If someone has mistakenly adjusted the e-brake by tightening the cable where the two meet... make sure you return that to the normal position... . the best way to adjust the e-brake is to use a star adjuster and adjust up the shoes correctly... .

Hope this helps... .

 

[RHestand]

The way I tell if the wheel cylinder (WC) is leaking is to just peel back the WC dust cover and if it's wet in there, you have to fix it. Of course it's possible both the WC and axle seal could be leaking. The water soluble test would work on that.
I R&R my rear brake shoes about a year ago and I also upgraded to the larger Chevy WCs and also noticed a distinct improvement.
SRath,
I don't know if my rear brakes were factory assembled (100K miles?) but they were in the correct position.
Ray

 

[HerbW]

Any part number for the larger Chevy Wheel cylinder? I have a 19' fiberglass cuddy boat that is hard to stop on a good brake day. I hope to tear down the works tomorrow. IF I go for the seal inside the axle, any better type of bearing grease to use. The parts house says there are two type of seal for my year truck and need to see the original to match. Maybe the 24 valve truck is a bit different here also. Thanks, Herb

 

[WilsonF]

Napa

Any part number for the larger Chevy Wheel cylinder? I have a 19' fiberglass cuddy boat that is hard to stop on a good brake day. I hope to tear down the works tomorrow. IF I go for the seal inside the axle, any better type of bearing grease to use. The parts house says there are two type of seal for my year truck and need to see the original to match. Maybe the 24 valve truck is a bit different here also. Thanks, Herb

Let me Google that for you.



37337 1-ton wheel cylinder install with pics! - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum



Floyd

 

[RHestand]

Bearing grease to use?

Any part number for the larger Chevy Wheel cylinder? I have a 19' fiberglass cuddy boat that is hard to stop on a good brake day. I hope to tear down the works tomorrow. IF I go for the seal inside the axle, any better type of bearing grease to use. The parts house says there are two type of seal for my year truck and need to see the original to match. Maybe the 24 valve truck is a bit different here also. Thanks, Herb

I'm almost positive no grease is required, because the axle bearings are lubed by the gear oil in the pumpkin.

Ray

 

[KKlingbeil]

I'm almost positive no grease is required, because the axle bearings are lubed by the gear oil in the pumpkin.

Ray

Correct no grease is required. My strong recomendation is to put grease on the seal and the spindle where the seal goes. Also oil the now clean bearings before reassembling. Another good idea is once you are done, re-fill the rear end, jack up the opposite side you were working on for 15 minutes or so, and then re check at level. That way you know for 100% that there is oil out there before you start to drive. I learned that the hard way!!

 

[HerbW]

I checked out the link to Cummins from Wilson listed above. Nice pics, part numbers and how to info! That's why I'm a TDR member(& now a Cummins member also). Thanks, Herb

 

[HerbW]

I will change the fluid in the pumpkin also and I do like the idea of tilting the axle for a while to get it lubed good. Can I pull the axle out on my 3/4 ton 8800 gvw without any gear problems in the pumpkin? Thanks, Herb

 

[fest3er]

Having gone through this recently myself, I can say the only two type of seals are single lip and double lip. The seal seals the hub to the axle housing. It's about 3" in diameter. The axle and end are one piece and need to be cleaned, then given a light coating of RTV on both sides of the thin metal gasket to get a good seal.

The big hub nut needs to be tightened to (I think) 140 ft-lb while turning the hub to seat the bearings. Then back off 1/8 turn. I tightened to 150 before backing off.

It hasn't leaked since, so I musta done something right.

And, yes, the axle slides right out once you remove the 8 end bolts holding it in.

 

[SRath]

Correct no grease is required. My strong recomendation is to put grease on the seal and the spindle where the seal goes. Also oil the now clean bearings before reassembling. Another good idea is once you are done, re-fill the rear end, jack up the opposite side you were working on for 15 minutes or so, and then re check at level. That way you know for 100% that there is oil out there before you start to drive. I learned that the hard way!!

That's why many service manuals tell you to pack grease into the wheel bearing even on an oil-bath design. Running dry bearings even for a very short distance can ruin them. I prefer your method since I do not want grease contaminating my gear lube, especially if I have a limited slip, and even more so if I just spent $12 per quart for fresh synthetic oil. Also, if its good grease, it could resist letting gear oil in to do its job.



You can also jack up both rear wheels with jackstands under the axle and carefully put the vehicle in gear for awhile, no need to mash the gas, and let the lube and bearings and seals get to know each other under no-load before driving it. Recheck the oil level afterwards.

 

[HerbW]

I finished recently the job. New brakes, wheel cylinders, a tube of RTV sealer, nut locks for the spindle and differential oil with lock conditioner.

Both rear wheel cylinders leaked fluid in streams when I removed the metal pushers. There are these little phoney nut locks that hold the spindle adjustments still. They cost eight dollars apiece from the Dodge dealer. Way over priced, I think, but I wanted it to stay put. They tap straight in to the nylon on the spindle nut.

It's true that the rearend oil lubes the axle bearings. I cleaned and greased them when the seal got replaced. The seals on the floating axles are on the spindle rear and not on the axle tube. It takes a special 2 9/16" socket. I bought it from Carquest for $25. 00.

My old shoes were the same size as the new and they were five years old.