2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Happy with GM wheel cylinders

[DValentine]

I spent the morning reading old posts on the upgrade. Took in both the pros and cons. Pulled the trigger and put them in. A note to those who may read this searching the same things I read thismoring. Yes there is a TSB upgrade for earlier trucks. I am dealing with a '98 so the jump was from stock (1 1/16") to 1 3/16" (GM Cylinder) was not as large a jump as from the earlier trucks.



After a few hot laps down the road, and heavy use of the brakes I can say I didn't notice a difference in the peddle "feel" in a negative way, even with the larger cylinder. I did feel a great increase in rear braking action. I laid into them hard and had them quite hot and smelly. They didn't lock up on the pavement or on a mild use on gravel. I would say they are worth the time to put in. Now I will work on upgrading the fronts..... another day.



Dave

 

[GrantP]

Without a doubt, this is the most cost effective braking upgrade you can do to these trucks. For about 20 bucks you can't beat it. If you still don't have enough brakes after this, then it's time to consider those expensive rotors/pads for the front. I have been completely satisfied after upgrading the rear wheel cylinders. After that simple swap, these are the best brakes I've ever had in any of my trucks. I warped 2 sets of "fancy" (i. e. expensive) front rotors prior to this mod simply because the back brakes weren't doing their fair share of the work.

I installed relatively inexpensive brembo rotors and akebono PROact pads up front along with the rear wheel cylinder upgrade and couldn't be happier.

 

[DavidPratt]

What is a part # for thies wheel cyl.

 

[Hammer]

Your 98 should have already had the larger rear wheel cylinders in from the factory. This was a issue on the 94-97 trucks mainly and was not much help for the 98-2000 trucks.



Also of note...

When you do redo the rear brakes make sure you use the cheapest and softest rear shoe you can find for the truck. Any high end rear shoe will produice a very grabby rear brake when applied and may create a problem if you have to stoip quickly.



This was told to me by Sam Peterson along time ago when he worked for the company who sold alot of us all here the Carbo-Met pads for the front of our trucks. I know he has long since retired and I still use his advice on my truck when its brake tiome... . Andy

 

[RHestand]

I'm just curious about this. Did you measure the ID on your orig. stock rear cyl. to confirm they were 1 1/16".

I've been thinking about doing this upgrade, now with what Hammer said, I'm confused.

I do know this. My rear brakes are very grabby the first two or three stops in the AM. After that, they are fine.

Since I'm going to pull it apart to see what's going on in there, I was going to do the upgrade.

New Info! I just called the local auto parts and he said, rear whl. cyl. bore size on a 98 Ram AWD:

2500 is 15/16"

3500 dually is 1 1/6"

It looks like we need some guys to chime in here that have actually got their hands dirty doing this brake "upgrade".

TIA, Ray

 

[SRath]

That's some interesting advice about the soft, cheap shoes, Hammer. But it makes a perverse kind of sense, too.

i have brought this up before, but my '96 came from the factory with BOTH sides exactly the same. Meaning the shorter "leading shoe" was in front (like it supposed to be) on one side, but in the rear on the other side.

I have never seen that before and never have figured out if it was accidental or intentional for some reason yet unknown.

Has anyone else found that on their truck?

 

[Hammer]

That's some interesting advice about the soft, cheap shoes, Hammer. But it makes a perverse kind of sense, too.

Nothing pervsrse about it at all Scott.

I have done it since I owned the truck in early 99 and have had zero issues with the rear brakes.



Ray...

I did measure mine way back in 99 and had to go dig up my notes from the brake job back then. We had to change mine then due to a emergency brake cable freezing up and when we did the job I had called Sam as I also wanted to upgrade to the Carbo-Mets. I also asked about the rear wheel cylinder upgrade and was told to chekc mine first as many of the 98's had the larger ones installed by Dodge to fix the braking issues with the trucks. My 98 Dana 80 had the bigger wheel cylinders on it so I just took them back and went to a really soft shoe for stopping.

 

[RHestand]

I'll be pulling mine down in the next week or two, so I'll be posting back on this thread as to my R. whl. cyl. size, and also about large & small brake shoe placement, front to rear.

Also, just to CMA, does any body have a part # or what Chevy truck the the 1 3/16 whl. cyl. is supposed to fit? I'd like to have a pair on hand forjust in case.

TIA, Ray

 

[DValentine]

Sorry folks. Just got back from a 2 week trip. I didn't measure the old rear cylinders. I just went with what I had found on here, as RHestand posted as to the wheel cylinder size. I figured an 1/8" wasn't a bad jump. The part number from Napa is 37337. I asked for a mid 90's one ton Chevy W/Cylinder. I have now put about 3500 miles on them, towing my heavy 5er and feel very comfortable recommending this upgrade. This is just my opinion.

 

[SRadke]

FWIW the stock cylinders in my 89 model W250 were 1 1/16". I installed the GM 1 3/16" cylinders in it as well for spectacular results. I found it necessary to slightly bend the lines to make them fit.

-Scott

 

[RHestand]

DValentine,

Thanks for the part #. I'll be picking up a set of those today.

Additional note: Just out of curiosity, I checked with another local auto parts re: 98 whl. cyl. , they said the same thing, except their info. showed some 2500s came with 15/16"s, and some with 1 1/16". ??

Ray

 

[WilsonF]

I did this mod on my 96 2500 about three years ago, I still am amazed at the difference when I use the brakes.

Floyd

 

[SLangone]

Is this the same cylinder that PDR sells for the Dodge truck?
Carbon Kevlar Brake Shoes 2000-2001. 5 Dodge 2500 SRW

 

[jelag]

It used to be the SAE engineers would specify the quality of the friction on the leading shoe and the quality of the friction on the trailing shoe... .

The leading shoe would grab and force the trailing shoe into the drum... . the leading show was harder and smaller in size (shorter) and the trailing shoe (rear) show was a little softer and had more surface area...

Later, aftermarket vendors to simplify what they did, would install the same friction on the front and rear shoe, often not paying attention to the coefficient of friction or the quality. .

So today you can find a whole mix of shoes that will fit... . some better than others... .

Several key factors we think are important... . coefficient of friction (the ability to work under a given pressure), heat fade (the ability not to FADE under severe use), and the ability not to pre-maturely wear the rotors and drums...

It used to be that vendors would put the grade of friction in the edge band of the block to allow the end user to identify the quality and stopping ability... this is often no longer the case. . We don't reline these shoes, we get them from quality manufacture who make them new... . we do reline class 8 truck shoes and there is at least 8 different quality ranges and application issues that you need to pay attention to... to my dismay, most customer want price, not thinking of the cost of labor over the life of the truck...

I've performed the upgrade in wheel cylinders on 2 family members trucks... with great success... I've never heard the issue of using soft lining, however I do believe a lining with a high coefficient of friction will tend to lock up the rear brakes sooner than expected on some surfaces... but like my BIL's who have work bodies and run them at gross weight all the time... . this is not and issue. .

We have always said, quality, service, price, pick any 2... . what some of the vendors are playing on, with some of the statements is that your almost to the end of the life of the vehicle as you know it... . (your going to trade) so that by the time their lifetime brake shoe wears out... you no longer own the vehicle or care...

One last comment, Kevlar is a DuPont Trade Name... . we use a lot of Aramid (generic) material, and some Kevlar... . most of our truck block has 2-10% Kevlar based on the quality... but we make clutch buttons from Aramid material from Spain...

Hope this helps you understand what our industry is doing... .

 

[WilsonF]

Is this the same cylinder that PDR sells for the Dodge truck?
Carbon Kevlar Brake Shoes 2000-2001. 5 Dodge 2500 SRW

The site you linked sells a pair of cyl. for $78, I got a pair @ NAPA for around $20. Maybe its the DRW thing but the price seems way to high.

Floyd

 

[RHestand]

I also just bought a pair, 1 3/16", for my dually from NAPA ( Made in Italy?) for $9. 35/each.

Now I just twisted off and broke a steel brake line. Fun-fun- fun.

 

[RHestand]

I finished my wheel cyl. install last night ( with new cheap brake shoes), took it for a break-in/ test drive this morning, and everything seems to work fine. Too early to tell if I think it works any better.

Regarding my truck: Wheel cyl. size=1 1/16"

Brake shoes: Both L & R, small was on front.

As sometimes happens, this turned out to be a lot bigger job than planned.

As I started taking these salt rusted brake lines and fittings apart, trying to save them, I twisted and broke off a whl. cyl. line. While laying there P Oed about that, I noticed brake fluid dripping off the bottom of my fuel tank. After further inspection, the front to rear B L has rusted through and leaking on my tank. Then I realize, almost all of my brake lines have to be replaced!

To make a long story short, Dodge doesn't make or have most of those lines anymore, and the three online B L vendors said it would be 2-4 weeks to get me a complete set.

I can't wait that long, so I buy a 25' roll of plastic coated brake line, rent a double flairing tool, and get started.

Start with the hard one first. Drop the fuel tank (after I syphon out 30+ gals of fuel), R&R 13' long F to R brake line with one I made to match. Then keep doing this untill it's done.

My only consolation is, it turned out better than I expected, skinned knuckles and all.

Ray

 

[JustinLee]

The part number from Napa is 37337. I asked for a mid 90's one ton Chevy W/Cylinder.

Is that a good part number for the 3/4 ton as well as the 1 ton?

 

[DValentine]

As far as I know its a one ton Chevy.

 

[budnate]

I did them a few weeks ago, I like them trucks stops more flat.