2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Hard brake line / fittings sizes

[Dave E]

Don't post here much, but always learn a lot when I need to figure sumthin out...



Was replacing my brakes today and putting on some new SS lines from the caliper to the hard lines, and despite a liberal application of PB Blaster, the hard line nut was rusted to itself, and I ended up twisting off the line. #@$%! Since the line was hidden behind the wheel well liner, couldn't see the line twisting until it was too late.



Looking at how bad all the hard lines look, and having my neighbor stop by and mention how one of his rusted away completely, I think I'm just going to do all the hard lines. Oh joy. So what size are the lines, and the fittings? I think the line is 3/16", but no idea on the fittings. Any idea how many fittings and how much tubing I need to do the entire truck? Any chance I can get the tubing from, say, McMaster and pay normal prices for it? They have about 8000 stainless steel tubing choices, it's got to be in there somewhere.

 

[Deejayare]

Hard lines

As my thug teenagers say "I feel ya homes". (that's what MTV will getcha) You're right. The hard lines are 3/16". If you "home run" your lines w/ no splices as recommended by TDR guys w/ more exp. than me, you have (2) X (4) hardlines as far as fitting go. Bending your own lines can take a lot of time. The easy line is the one at the frame rail that goes to the rear axle. I just got done doing mine and a few of the tight lines took way longer than I liked. On the other hand I got pre-bent SS lines that took two months to get and were wrong when I got them. PITA job. I'm thinking someone out here should here should start bending and supplying SS lines at a reasonable price. There is one brake supplier the other guys use, I don't buy from. Prices and "packages" seem to gouge the wallet.



Were your front flexible lines the same length right side compared to left side? Let me know.

 

[Dave E]

Yeah, I saw your thread as I was starting to try and figure out what I was going to do. Misery loves company I suppose.



I definitely can't wait around for 2 months to get pre-bent lines (especially ones that don't fit!), so I guess I'm going to learn how to fabricate brake lines. I was going to go with the SS tubing, but I was thinking about what's on my other vehicle, a 20 year old Porsche 944, and those lines have exactly 0 corrosion and rust on them. They are absolutely perfect. It turns out they're made from Cunifer, a copper-nickel alloy that even more research found is used on Naval ships, in desalinization plants, and on offshore oil rigs. Apparently it's pretty damn good at resisting corrosion. Resists "biofouling" too, so I guess I won't have to worry about any barnacles on my brake lines either Oo.



Found a place that has it (www.fedhillusa.com), so I'm going to give them a try. I'll update as I go.

 

[Deejayare]

WOW, that's interesting. Watch out for the flares at the ends as you fab. Evidently they must be exact in terms of size to get a leak proof connection. My truck is leaking all over the drive.



Good Luck

 

[Dave E]

We'll see what happens. I talked to the guy yesterday and ordered everything. Apparently this stuff you don't even need a tube bender, you can bend it by hand to a radius as small as your finger! They're also sending some fancy flaring tool that I get to rent for 2 weekends that has all the right dies and such for the tubing size. The part I liked best was when I asked him about fittings, and how would I make sure I had enough, right size, etc. , w/ the tool rental they send out this huge assortment of fittings (he said about $200 worth), you use what you need, return the rest, they count what came back, and you only get charged for what you use.



Frankly, it all sounds too good to be true!

 

[Deejayare]

I checked out the website and I found it way interesting. They have a ton of tech info on DIY. I think u. r. on to something here. I want a great looking install but it's no good if leaks. They really seem to understand the different types of fittings. I may end up replacing my stuff that doesn't fit with these.



Thanks for the info. I'd appreciate learning of the outcome.

Jake

 

[Dave E]

Planning on doing it this weekend, I'll let you know how it goes. (Apparently we're the only ones that find this interesting right now... )

 

[Jong]

That website is interesting... I've got to do brake lines on an '84 GMC one ton and a '90 Chevy Blazer, and that looks like the place I'll get the repalcements. I heard stainless was way harder to work with than standard steel lines, which are bad enough... then rust out 3 years later, especially in New Hampshire. Surprised to see they were less than 100 miles from my house, too!!!

 

[Dave E]

Update for the couple of you following along here -



I got all the supplies for doing the brake lines the day before Thanksgiving. The day after T-day, I rolled out to the truck and started in on the new brake lines. 2 days later, they were installed, bled, and 100% functioning. I ended up replacing all the hard lines except for the ones back on the rear axle. I would have done those, but didn't have any new flexible lines to run to the caliper, and since those hard lines actually didn't look that bad rust-wise, I decided to just leave them. I'll probably do them at some point, but they're good for now.



So the grand total was 7 lines - 2 from the master cylinder to the proportioning valve, 2 from the prop valve to the ABS unit, and then 3 from the ABS to each of the front wheels and then the rear axle. The kit from FedHill was a lifesaver. I honestly don't know how I would have gotten it done without it. Along with the rental flaring tool, you get a collection of metric and SAE fittings. Use whatever you need, send the rest back, they count up what you used and only charge you for that. Between the ABS, MC, and PV fittings, there were 3 different metric fitting sizes. Then at the wheels, the lines were SAE



Anyway, I had everything installed by the end of the day Saturday, and went out Sunday morning when it was empty out to test 'em. Stopped like a champ. I had one fitting leak that just plain wasn't tightened, but after a week, I only have one fitting that maybe, possibly, has a tiny, tiny leak. All the others are totally dry. ABS works great, no computer codes or lights, no pull or vibration from the brakes on some hard stops.



After I was convinced that things were working, I went back in and added a few brackets to hold the lines in place, and also slit some silicon hose and slipped it around the lines where there was a risk of them rubbing against the frame or something that could wear down the line. If I were to do it again, I might just slip some shrinkwrap around the entire line before I flared it.



So all-in-all, I was shocked at how well this went. I waited a week before posting because I didn't want to jinx it! Considering I'd never flared a fitting or installed a hard line ever before I started this, I'm very pleased. The flaring tool was also a huge help, as it made getting nice flares a piece of cake. I had a little trouble with one of the dies, as it didn't want to make a nice flare in one punch, but a little trial-and-error (and some hand-holding from Tim from FedHill) and I figured out a technique to fix that problem.



FYI, the total job included the full package from EGR (pads, rotors, calipers, SS brake lines), the hard brake lines, and a new master cylinder as well. Brakes work fantastic now.



I have some pics that, if I can sort out hosting them, I'll post. I also wrote up all the fittings, length of line, routing, etc. that I used. If anyone wants that, I can e-mail it.

 

[JSTC]

Dave, I need to do the entire brake lines like you did. Were you able to get a list of everything you need to do the job? This is for my friend Rick, my truck isn't that bad yet. Would it be easier if I had him call you or you call him?



John

 

[Dave E]

Dave, I need to do the entire brake lines like you did. Were you able to get a list of everything you need to do the job? This is for my friend Rick, my truck isn't that bad yet. Would it be easier if I had him call you or you call him?



John

Let me hunt around, I wrote up what I did in a fair amount of detail. I just switched computers here at work, so I have it on 1 of 3 computers, just have to figure out which!

 

[JSTC]

O K I'll wait to hear from you.