Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Hard start. Fuel cutoff solenoid?

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Hey y'all--

My 96 is giving me a hard time today. Drove it yesterday, no prob. Today it was hard to start, crank speed was fine but had to crank more than 30 sec before starting, then it ran like it had lost prime and was trying to catch up. Drove fine for 15 min, shut it off, restarted immediately with no prob. Had dinner, was hard to start again, probably total of a minute of cranking, then ran fine.

This doesn't really sound like a fuel cut problem, does it? What else should I look at? Fuel filter is due for a change, probably longer than I've ever run it before. I'm in Florida, temps in low 60s.

Thanks
Kevin

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Filter changed, started fine, will let it sit an hour and see what happens...

 

[BigPapa]

Easy to check the shut off solenoid. Next time it is hard to start, leave your key in the run position (this will allow the solenoid to hold the lever up), pull the lever the solenoid is connected to all the way up and see what it does.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Yup, looks like the solenoid is pretty much not doing anything. Will figure out why...

 

[BigPapa]

Check the relay on the firewall first.

***** The info I originally posted below is WRONG!!! *****

A CTI 88069 Relay from O'reilly's will work for less than $10.00. If you want one that looks more like the original get the BWD/R4184 for just over $20.00. It comes with a new connector.

**************************************************

I had an "old man moment" I guess. I was thinking about the relays I used in my headlight harness.

The correct relay at O'Reilly's is IDI 25-0102.

Looks like it is $9.99. The actual replacement with the hood and mounting tab is BWD R3148 and sells for $76.99.

I hope I didn't cause anyone a problem by posting the incorrect information.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Thanks! I've got a box of goodies on the way from Larry B. I didn't have a helper or a lot of spare time to properly diagnose, and it's probably the relay, but the whole kit from Larry is cheap enough I'll replace what's needed and toss the rest in the tool box for whenever I need it.

 

[SSage]

Yeah, mine started acting up a few years back and I thought it was just a relay, that fixed it for a while. Then the truck would just quit while driving, dang fuel cut off was failing. Eventually the solenoid and relay effected the starter and it all fried when the starter hung up.

Larry B has the stuff in kit form, just don't only do a relay etc. Go through the whole system, good time to do the starter brushes and fusible link too. Don't fool around and get a run away starter. If you pull the starter and service it the fuel hoses are easier to change out. Good time to clean the prefilter, put in a fresh seal, delete the fuel heater if its still there. Yours is probably gone by now, I left mine in till 92,000 miles when it finally started sucking air and causing hard starts.

Geno's had good pricing on the fuel cut off solenoid last time I checked. Larry B is pricey on some stuff like lift pumps. I installed their diesel rated fuel hose kit at the firewall and the starter kit, worked like a charm. Still using my original starter on my 95.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

My truck's previous owner did the starter upgrade, and I ditched the fuel heater, so I'm probably good on those.

I did buy Larry's Super Solenoid kit; I reckon it's no big deal to just do it all and forget about it. I'm trying to get a CANZ9700 kit too. Just got the backorder notice from allmoparparts.com, so maybe I'll get one on ebay for 3X the money. Records show my truck got recall 970 done back in '01, but it needs it done again.

 

[GAmes]

Genos was carrying the CANZ9700 kit. Have you called them?

 

[SSage]

I've only got 40,000 miles on my relay kit from Larry B with their direct replacement fuel cut off solenoid. Hopefully it will last longer than the original system. My truck is not a daily driver, so age gets me before the miles. My OEM set up made it to 60K or so.

Just replaced my DTT 47RH's shift selector shaft seal for the first time ever today since it was an ATF rain shower under the pan. My 95 is getting to the age it needs things fixed more and more, radiator, ball joints, lift pump, rubber fuel lines all failed me this winter. Thankfully with the help of the forums and a shop manual I can keep it on the road without spending a fortune.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Glad I got the whole kit. It wasn't the relay. Does a bad fusible link _look_ bad? I've only blown one in my life, and iirc you could see it was melted. The one on my truck looks fine.

WTF is up with fusible links anyway? Why have a "fuse" that isn't available at any grocery store and requires tools to replace? I've been thinking about that, and my guess is they use links in places that John Q Public isn't qualified to mess with. If you blow a fusible link, you need someone who knows what they're doing to check it out. I'll be replacing mine with an appropriately-rated replaceable fuse.

I didn't call Geno about the CANZ9700. It's not on their page, but anyway I already got one from ebay for $38.

Thanks all...

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Wow. Geno has the standard Larry B solenoid with the brackets and relay for $110. Ad the fuse link for $14 and you seem to have the same kit that Foster Truck sells for $153. I got he HD Super Solenoid @ Foster, which Geno's doesn't have on their page, but that's a reminder that Geno's takes good care of us...

 

[SSage]

Its a good fail safe to have a fusible link in there, I think its 65 amp. The fusible link can get corroded or worn/loose terminals though, its just a wire with crimp on connectors. If the starter was done, did a diode get installed? That supposedly protects the cut off solenoid if the starter gets hung on.

The kit I used just had the "super duty" brushes, new plunger and a diode. Looks like the current easy kit has a brush holder plate with springs too. I had to drop the starter at an RV park on gravel, it was not fun. At least I was solo when mine burned up, I lost power in downtown Charlotte, NC in traffic. Zip tie to the rescue, my starter was hanging, but bumping the switch made it behave enough to get back to my toy hauler. Used my motorcycle for a few days till the parts came in, I was full timing in my RV at the time. Glad I had extra wheels for work, didn't cost me too much. Fairly easy fix.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Fusible link is good. I have power to the relay. Relay is new. I do NOT have a trigger signal from the ignition switch to activate the relay. Now what?

 

[GAmes]

#9 fuse maybe?

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-engine/569868-fuel-shut-off-solenoid-fss.html

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Thanks for that post. I've seen that diagram but now that I actually study it, I have a better understanding.

The #9 fuse is for the "hold" wire, and my hold works fine. The trigger signal for the relay is the brown wire from the starter. Apparently there's no fuse there. Maybe I just have a broken wire or an unplugged connection. That beats tracing wires under the dash. We'll see tomorrow.

I don't know if the PO put in a diode when he did the starter contacts, but he was a pretty thorough guy. Diode could have failed.