Hard start hot

[Prairie Dog]

My truck has been getting harder and harder to start when warm. Shut it off and come back 30 minutes later and it cranks a long time. In the morning when the eng is cold she fires right up every time.
I torqued the corss-over tubes but that didn't seem to do anything.
Batteries are strong and voltage stays high - starter spins it very fast, in fact it seems to start spinning faster after about 5 seconds.
107K miles but with lots of short trips.
Lift pump pressure is good but it's about time for a filter change.
After starting it runs strong and smooth.
No codes.
No abnormal smoke.

I always thought that a leaky injector would show up in the morning as much as anytime?
What the next thing for this shade tree mechanic to check or is it time to take it to a pro?

Thanks,
Scott

 

[p-Bar]

You need to take to someone who can monitor rail pressure for you. As you said this is usually a problem when cold. I think you have a bad injector

 

[Prairie Dog]

You need to take to someone who can monitor rail pressure for you. As you said this is usually a problem when cold. I think you have a bad injector

Thanks P-Bar.
I'm afraid your right. I'm going to replace both FF's tomorrow just so I can say I did but I don't think that has anything to do with it.
Seems like awfully low mileage for an injector though..

 

[Killer223]

I think I read somewhere that long cranks when warm is a warn CP3...
but yes we need a rail pressure reader to diag.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Thanks Killer, I'm researching that now. One guy on Youtube suggested the FCA could even cause it.

Any input from the rest of the TDR Brain Trust would be greatly appreciated!

Scott

 

[cerberusiam]

No start cold is usually injectors, hard start warm is usually injectors. You have a 14 year old truck with some sensitive components that WILL degrade with age, FCA, PRV, injectors, etc. Injectors in that year are substandard for the application, lots of updates were done to fix them.

To top it off, you have a manual truck that is known for periodic long cranks for no valid reason. Testing, testing, then more testing then parts swapping if tests are definitive. As TCDiesel is so fond of saying, these CR's do not always follow a logical course when it comes to problems.

 

[Killer223]

To top it off, you have a manual truck that is known for periodic long cranks for no valid reason. Testing, testing, then more testing then parts swapping if tests are definitive. As TCDiesel is so fond of saying, these CR's do not always follow a logical course when it comes to problems.

This!!! i have this issue on my 08.... any enlightenment you can provide?

 

[cerberusiam]

This!!! i have this issue on my 08.... any enlightenment you can provide?

On the newer trucks, no. The pre-05 trucks had a flash that may or may not help but not heard a lot of issue with newer ones. The only real fix seems to be good quality cam and crank sensors, a lot of them are just not very good and forces the start routine into default mode which induces long cranks. Funny thing is it has only been a problem on manual trucks not the autos and they use the same sensors.

 

[Tuesdak]

Does puff of black smoke after a long crank hot start make a difference?

 

[NIsaacs]

in fact it seems to start spinning faster after about 5 seconds.
Thanks,
Scott

That indicates a bad battery conection, usually the ground. They get overlooked, because they will look clean, but are not. The ground on a 3rd gen is critical for starting. Since they might spin over good, the normal thought process is, all is good, but a slight drop in voltage will cause a hard/no start.

Nick

 

[Prairie Dog]

That indicates a bad battery conection, usually the ground. They get overlooked, because they will look clean, but are not. The ground on a 3rd gen is critical for starting. Since they might spin over good, the normal thought process is, all is good, but a slight drop in voltage will cause a hard/no start.

Nick

Thanks Nick.
I found out my wife had been leaving a cell phone charger plugged into the port in my center glove box and I'm wondering if that was causing the battery to drop just a little over a week or more. Maybe that caused the cranking speed oddity.
I will also check the battery connections thoroughly.
As for the Hot start issue, I *think* I *might* have fixed it but I have to try it a few more times.
More after I know for sure.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[Prairie Dog]

Removed and cleaned up all battery connections (which looked good) and installed some of the improved starter contacts (just because I had them). Started pretty much normal (long) a couple of times and then I almost couldn't get it to fire. It just spun for abaout 15 seconds until I gave up and tried again. Then a long crank and it fired. So now it's doing it cold.
I've about ran out of options so I guess it's time for its first ever trip to the shop for an eng. related issue.

 

[Killer223]

injectors... stop delaying it.

 

[Prairie Dog]

injectors... stop delaying it.

NOooooooooooooo!
(Though I do like the idea of some new injectors with 50HP tips.. )

 

[DonFitzwater]

Yeeeeeeeeeees! And don’t go cheap like the guy in my last thread.......do NOT buy from diesel logic. Get your injectors from Genos or TC diesel....or a reputable Bosch shop. She’ll be good to go after that.

 

[Prairie Dog]

I'll be getting them from Dynomite Diesel Performance (DDP) in Monroe Wa.
They'll be brand new - not rebuilt.

 

[p-Bar]

I'll be getting them from Dynomite Diesel Performance (DDP) in Monroe Wa.
They'll be brand new - not rebuilt.

Have you looked at the BBI's?

 

[Prairie Dog]

Have you looked at the BBI's?

No, but I don't want to do the work myself (tired of that stuff!) and DDP seems to have a good reputation. Honeslty I don't know who else I'd have do it if I bought something else.
I'm open to suggestions though!

 

[Prairie Dog]

In an effort to rule out the simple stuff, I tried to test the PRV.
With the eng warm and the FCA still plugged in, I removed the line to the PRV and the truck refused to start (just spins). Tried it a couple of times.
Nothing came out of the PRV while it cranked but I did get just a little fuel out of the open line.

Ever seen anything like that?

 

[Prairie Dog]

In the shop, CP3 is digesting itself.
It will get the pump and fresh innectors with DDP's honed 50HP tips.
At least I'll get some modest performance increase out of this!

Scott