Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Hard Starting Issue

[Willys]

I've been having a progressively worse hard starting issue. Actually its a few issues. I replaced the lift pump last fall. After replacing the pump, the engine would fire right off. Its slowly gotten to the point that it takes several seconds of cranking to get the engine started. BUT, if I push the pedal just a little bit, the engine fires right off. What could be causing this? I've checked the length of the shut-off solenoid rod- its close, but its hard to tell right now, and I don't want to monkey around too much on vacation. (I'm 500 miles from home, in sunny Sarasota FL). I changed the over flow valve within a few weeks of replacing the pump.



The other issue is battery related, and has been coming on worse lately. The engine is beginning to turn slower when I crank it. Sometimes it seems like it doesn't have enough juice to start the engine. But, if I touch the gas pedal a little bit, it fires off(starter is still spinning slow, but the engine doesn't take many revolutions before it fires). The battery voltage varies between 12. 45 and 12. 76 volts depending(after sitting 12+ hours, measured several different days) on whether I've rolled the windows down or used the electronics in any way before starting. I noticed the newer battery(<1 year old) has a small crack in the negative post, so I swapped the batteries so the older one(~3 yrs) is closer to the starter(driver side). I've cleaned the posts. Soon I'm going to get the military terminals and upgrade the battery cables(and get a priority start). The bad batteries may be my fault from leaving the lights/oba clutch on a few times...



There are some other issues I'm concerned might be involved- the engine never has seemed to have as much power as other 12V auto trucks I've been around, so I'm always hunting for the gremlins as I learn more about how this truck works...



Anyone have any more ideas? If I can't get it to start like normal I"ll get some Exide Orbitals at NAPA tomorrow. I have a pair of large marine batteries in the back of the truck for a welder, they're fully charged if I have to jump it off in an emergency...

 

[TXDSLSHOP]

I would check your idle speed, it should be between 750 and 800 in drive witht the a/c on. If yours is below that it will be hard to start. Also I would pop for a set of the starter solenoid contacts from Larry B. They really made a diference on how fast my 12 valve turns over. Also, I am not sure if it's really true, I have been told that you should replace your batteries in pairs in a 2 battery system. Hope this helps. Jeremy.

 

[Willys]

I'm on my second set of replacement starter contacts, these are the super contacts from LarryB. A few years ago I was having problems with the starter sticking... his contacts fixed it. I'm not sure that is what it could be now, but I guess I should pull the starter and check anyways.



I usually would replace the batteries in pairs, but was strapped for cash at the time , so I just popped in a walmart battery. A friend has a battery load tester- we could isolate the bad battery. We tested both several months back and both held a load. But, I have left the lights on a few times since...



Something came to mind just now- I replaced the fuel strainer o-ring about the same time I replaced the LP. But, I couldnt find the o-ring above the fuel heater. The Cummins dealer tried to find the part, but they were having a tough time with it(or just didn't care ). Does anyone know the part number and/or a reputable dealer I could order from online or by phone? I've not had good experiences with the cummins dealer the last few times...



I adjusted the shutoff plunger to 2 and 5/8" this afternoon and it made no noticeable difference. The last two winters the truck has been slow to start and smokes white and idles rough for a few minutes. Could this be related to having to push the pedal to get it going?



I'm thinking about buying the tools to check the idle... I'll need them again if I start bombing... :-laf



EDIT: I've noticed if I don't press the pedal and let the batteries force the engine over for a few seconds, that the engine s-l-o-w-l-y starts turning and gains speed the longer it cranks. I would think a dead battery system would slowly turn the engine and get slower as I crank, because its draining the battery? Maybe its just because the 'mass is no longer at rest' and is easier to accelerate, requiring less juice?

 

[TXDSLSHOP]

What about the idle? Just curious, is your truck idling in gear with a/c on at 750?

 

[Willys]

oops, forgot that part...



I bumped the idle up a little already, and it didn't make any difference. I'm not sure how to tell if its really 750 or 800- the gauge doesn't have much to go by on markings, and from what I read in the FSM last week, 'don't adjust the idle according to the gauges, use a scan tool'. Is there any easy way to set the idle without finding someone with a computer to read it with? Any kind of tool that can measure it?



Anyways, warmed up with the A/C on, in park, idle is a little above the mark below 1,000 rpm. I'm not sure if that's supposed to be 750 or 500, there isn't exactly an even spacing between the marks below 1000.



Thanks for the help.

 

[TXDSLSHOP]

Not sure what your tach looks like, my truck is a 98 and the tach is divided up pretty good with marks and you can pretty much figure out where 750 is. In my experience, a truck that otherwise runs normal but is hard to start without giving it a little throttle is usually idled too low. 12 valves have a tendancy to loose idle over time and require periodic adjustment. If it isn't low idle then I am stumped without seeing it. Sorry, wish I could think of more.

 

[Willys]

I doubt the idle is too low, but I'll try to bump it a little more. I just don't want to get it too high and have problems with the torque converter.



I'm familiar with the 98 12V's, there are 2 in the family(Mom and Dad), in addition to another 96(lil brother). The 98 guage is IIRC a little easier to read. I know over the wintertime my mom's truck gets a very bad low idle condition- I have to bump it up every so often for her or it won't run. The other trucks don't seem to do this.

 

[Eric_77]

cracked/leaking fuel return line



corroded or loose battery terminal



tach does not have mark for 250rpm it starts at 500 rpm then mark for 750 then 1000 (indicated)

 

[Willys]

cracked/leaking fuel return line



corroded or loose battery terminal



tach does not have mark for 250rpm it starts at 500 rpm then mark for 750 then 1000 (indicated)

I've replaced the lines a few times before, its been a few years so maybe they're bad again, I might have to order some new ones from LarryB. A friends lines were so bad once, that he was pouring out diesel... :--) Don't know how he made it home...



I've cleaned/removed/reinstalled the cables and batteries a few times now, no change.



Thanks for the info on the tach, mine is reading a little over 750 then.



I'm leaving to drive from Sarasota to home in a few hours, 450+ miles... Hope I don't have to shut it off.

 

[Willys]

I FINALLY made it home, after a few hours in Lake City fixing the truck. Turns out it was the starter. I stopped for fuel and the truck wouldn't start. More after I get some sleep and a full days work, its 2 am and I just drove almost 500 miles... .



UPDATE:



It was DEFINETELY the starter. I took it apart and the brushes had worn, and were trying to weld themselves to the armature(?). I wish I'd known what it was before, LarryB sells the brushes. I would recommend everyone change the brushes every 200-250k miles as good insurance.



http://fostertruck.com/dodge/default.htm



If you just want to replace the starter, I noticed some new ones on ebay for around 105 plus shipping.



I stopped for fuel in Lake City FL, when the truck would not start. After a little messing around and halfway diagnosing, we figured out it was the starter. The owner of the gas station, Jerrick, drove me around a few times to get parts. I have NEVER met a gas station owner that would do this, hats off to him. If you are passing through N. FL and need fuel, B & B Gas'n Go and RV Park is the place to go! Just take the Hwy 90 exit off of I-75. He also owns the Rhodeway Inn, and quoted me 39. 95/night, but I decided to drive home...



And thanks to the TDR members for helping me with this problem.