head gasket and fastner options

[jtisdale]

Is the marine gasket the same thickness as the factory isb gasket? Also, what are the benefits of 12mm studs over bolts?





Jim

 

[1dslram]

I believe the marine gasket is . 020 over, the same as the 12V version. The reason for studs is it puts a lot less strain on the threads in the block. They are also made of a better material and are stronger and reusable. If you use studs be sure to follow factory torque procedure but the stud manufacture's torque specs. It is important to release the torque on the studs and retorque one at a time in the proper sequence 2 more times. It takes 3 times of streching the studs to set the strech. This only needs to be done on the initall install.

Bruce

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Jim - are you having evil thoughts of building a set of twins again? Gimme a call... I'll help.



IMHO, the 12mm studs are a waste of time if you plan on running more than 60psi. 14mm is the way to go... go big right out of the gates and do it right.



Matt

 

[cumminspwr01]

Also if you are going to be using a thicker head gasket you may want to contact Piers about getting some new crush washers for your injectors. I think he was the one working on those.

 

[BillGotthelf]

If you are really getting serious don't waste your $ on the 12mm bolts go directly to the 14's. Spend the time and extra dollars up front so you won't do it twice. Also make sure the head is perfectly flat (decked) and get it o-ringed or fire ringed right the first time.

 

[Hohn]

Originally posted by HoleshotHolset



IMHO, the 12mm studs are a waste of time if you plan on running more than 60psi. 14mm is the way to go... go big right out of the gates and do it right.



Matt

Yeah, that way you get the privilege of ripping the threads out of the block and/or distorting the bores to the point where you need to remachine the whole block.



I think I'll go with Don M's 12mm studs, thanks.

 

[banshee]

Yeah, that way you get the privilege of ripping the threads out of the block and/or distorting the bores to the point where you need to remachine the whole block.

Who has done this? Scheid Diesel has been using the 14s in their hot trucks for a while now, and they have never had a stud pull out of the block. Since the block has to be out anyway, the bores can be correctly honed with a deck plate, and the fire ring grooves can be correctly cut at the machine shop as well. As long as a quality shop does the work there shouldn't be any problems.



John

 

[jtisdale]

Originally posted by HoleshotHolset

Jim - are you having evil thoughts of building a set of twins again? Gimme a call... I'll help.



IMHO, the 12mm studs are a waste of time if you plan on running more than 60psi. 14mm is the way to go... go big right out of the gates and do it right.



Matt

No twins for this truck. Remember guys, this is a 24v! I just want it to hold about 40-42psi. not anywhere 60.

I dont want to use a . 020 gasket because after shimming the injectors (to compensate for the gasket) nobody has told me how to address the connector tube to injector issue. I know some really big shops that dont use . 020 gaskets for these reasons. They have also said if you dont have proper injector height, "performance and reliability may suffer".

So, I am looking at the stock or stock thickness gasket, and bolts or studs. If my bolts are stretched too much to re-use, and I need new ones, is it a good return on investment to go with 12mm studs instead of bolts? I really dont think I need the 14mm.

Heres the deal... last weekend at a pull, the head lifted, just a little. The front right corner pee'd about a 1/4 of a teaspoon of coolant out of the headgasket and dribbled down the block. I have been checking everything else since then, and all appears fine. (No extra oil, no external leaks, no bubbles or oil in coolant, no white smoke)

I just want to have a game plan in order and parts on the shelf when it does puke. I am gonna retorque the head this week sometime and then wait for it to blow before I do anything.

Thanks for all the advice.

Jim

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I may have to re-think my previous statement a bit...



I've recently heard that running a 14mm tap into a hole where there used to be 12mm threads does not fully remove everything that was leftover... this to me sounds like a bit of a crapshoot to get it right if you're doing it 'in-frame'. I am now a firm believer that the key to making the 14mm studs work right is pulling the block...



What's with the front of these engines? They all seem to leak there... . grrrr. I wonder if we have to play games with the final torque sequence... .



It was discovered long ago on the 2. 2L/2. 5L turbo Chryslers that the outermost corner 4-bolts on the head have to be torqued less than the other ones... if you follow the OEM torque specs - you'll distort the gasket and it'll leak.



Matt

 

[cumminspwr01]

If you figure anything out with your new torquing sequence let us know.

 

[jtisdale]

Originally posted by cumminspwr01

If you figure anything out with your new torquing sequence let us know.

I dont want to be the Guinea Pig

 

[Snow man]

im on head gasket #5 now. I am going to try one more time with a new head,and O rings,see if this does it. Im running 65psi,and diesel only. i cant get a head gasket to hold so far. Everytime i have pulled it apart weve found somethign wrong,that explained the blown gasket,hopefully ill get it right one of these times . BTW it seems i can run all day at 50psi with a few things wrong,and still be ok,but at 65psi, there isnt any room for problems. That cyl pressure finds any imperfection in the fire ring/o ring and burns right thru it into the coolant/oil passages. my first head gasket blew between cyl #2-3 and 3-4,compression only running a b1 with NO wastegate and 54psi for 6 months). 2nd blew waterout the back,and 2 gallons of oil into the radiator, o ring protrustion was too great,and head was out . 005 or more( it was working at the time it was done for others),2 sets of fire rings blew on #5(my fault),and the last head gasket o-ringed blew oil out #1(my machinsts fault,but iseen it and tried it anyway with Muncie being the same week,and my option was not going(not an option),. all this within a 5 month period

 

[Amianthus]

Don't you guys know that the front of the head is meant to lift first by design? How else do you expect to blow oil and coolant all over the engine compartment?



Jim, you never call anymore? You know I'm a straight shooter. Did the boss take away your calling privilages? Or am I just that bad an influence? BTW, weren't you supposed to let me know when the pulling season was to start so I could compete? Or are you skeered?

 

[jtisdale]

You got a pm Aron. Pulling season started in Muncie. I hate to bug you with the petty phone calls too much.

 

[Partyat33]

Go ahead and call him, Jim. Ever since I put his # in my phone I have called WAY too many times. And he still answers all my questions. LOL





Dennis

 

[cumminspwr01]

When my headgasket blew it was blowing oil out the front and back but didnt get anything in the antifreeze. I also don't have studs in it (yet).