///// Heavy hauling for personal use ? CDL / DOT # ? //////

[AndrewKing]

HI All,

I need to do some work on my property (lot clearing / grading / cut in driveway etc) and rather than hiring somebody to do it (expensive!) , I decided to do as my friend did on his property and buy my own equipment to do it myself.

In theory, buying will cost as much as having the work done BUT a side benefit of the DIY approach is that it is kinda fun and you also get to have a machine left over in case you need more work done in the future.

My situaltion is this...I found a nice large machine ( A combination trencher (putting in drain lines off my gutters / installing drain pipes to drain water away from the house, back hoe (handy for general digging / removing stumps , vibratory plow for neat wire installing to my out buildings, and a 6 way blade to maintain the gravel driveway) located about 900 miles from my house (yes far away BUT it is a good price and will do what I need....The machine weighs about 13K lbs.

I have a 1997 dodge dually (diesel, 5 sp, ext cab, 4.10 gears , 4x4, e) and just bought a Econoline 12T backhoe pro trailer (older 1995 model...needs some work but I got it at a very good price so I think it was a good deal)....Per the sticker on the trailer it weighs 5K empty).

I have a friend who is a welder by trade and he will make me a commercial grade hitch to handle the weight....(FWIW - We will be removing the rear bumper and having the hitch custom done so the pintle / ball (if we convert it over to a ball coupler of the appropriate weight cap so we can run weight distributing), moved closer to the rear axle of the truck to minimize the overhang length and the extra stress it would make for the rear end (while not as good as a goose neck or 5th wheel, it would still be light years ahead of the stock hitch location.....I don't want to use a bed type hitch because I run a cap on my truck for tools / storage etc...).

Anyways, my biggest concern is issues with "the man".....I actually went to our local DMV (division of motor vehicles) to get info on CDLs and DOT numbers because some of my friends say that is what would keep the man off my back in the evet I get pulled over.

On the flip side I also have friends say I don't need it because it is for personal use and therefore a COMMERCIAL drivers license is not needed.

I understand the combo is heavy GVW rated (the truck sticker is about 11K GVW and the trailer is 24K GVW).....I only use the dually for me personally and the trailer I got a good deal on (plus if it is rated to do 24K , the 13K I need it to haul should not be a problem....heck the trailer alone could stop everything using its brakes alone I believe!).

Anyways, If I get the machine it would be a long multiday trip so its not like just like running out a couple hundred miles (at night if need be to minimize exposure)...plus I'd like to actually do some sightseeing along the way to and from picking up the machine (might as well make it a semi vacation trip to boot!).

So, is it fair to say that because I am doing it for myself (no commercial use), I should not have problems with "the man" in terms of CDL / DOT numbers.....(actually, I'll have to see how much weight my DMV says I can tow with my dually....in VA people sometimes tag / title things to make sure they have enough "paper capacity" even though this may be different than actual vehicle capacity.

I hate it when things get so complicated for seemingly such a simple task....Oh side note : The truck is in an LLC name for liability reasons (my house is also in a LLC name for the same reason)...not real business use just to protect property and minimize exposure to potential losses).

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Andrew

PS - Since this this is personal use even tho heavy....I did not plan on a CDL / DOT number / stop at weigh stations type situation

 

[AEdelheit]

You should check the laws though any state you will be driving thought. In CA if a trailer is over 9,999 or 10,001 GVW, cant remember exactly and is not an RV you need a class A license, could be a non commercial class A I believe if its for personal use. You may also need Not for hire stickers. Depending on how much of a pain it will be it may be easier just to have it hauled back.

 

[AndrewKing]

HI,

Having the machine hauled would cost me $2700 (I shopped it around but I have not tried uship yet) so I decided to buy a used trailer ($1500 + I have to fix a few things) so I figured I would haul it myself (make a mini vacation / sightseeing trip out of it) and have a trailer and good memories when everything was said and done).

The day I picked up the trailer I even drove past an open weigh station because I never even thought of it being anything commercial...

FWIW - I am put a call into the FMCSA to see about DOT numbers...and CDLs

Thanks

Andrew

 

[DNordvik]

One DOT officer told me I would have a hard time proving personal use, then proceeded to give me a full inspection complete with plenty of tickets for various violations. Any company name or LLC on the registration will most likely bump you to commercial. Stop into a weigh station and talk to a DOT officer. That will tell you which way to go. With a trailer rated that heavy I dont believe you will get by on personal use.

 

[SnoKing]

Sounds like you will weigh more the the magical 26,000 pounds! SNOKING

 

[JR]

I gotta give it to ya, your persistent!

What is wrong with your big Ford? It would be much better suited for a long trip at that GCW.

In your other thread I assumed you were wanting to stay local with this heavy equipment. 900 miles towing 18k+ with an 18 year old 1 ton truck using a pinto hitch is flat nuts. Your obviously going to be on state routes and possibly freeways. State Troopers aren't stupid bud, they'll spot you from a mile away with your headlights pointing skyward. You dont even know how the truck wilk handle it until you get there. A new home made hitch, new trailer and new piece of equipment and your first test drive will be almost a thousand miles from home. Don't take offense to what I am saying, just trying to save you some serious head aches and possible trouble with the law. If you do make it home with no hicups your sure to shave some years off that poor truck. If you don't and you get pulled over or broke down they will probably make you park it and figure out other arrangements. I would really think this one through some more.

 

[AndrewKing]

HI,

Yes, I would be above the 26K total gross (in my case something like 35K) but for personal use I don't think that number means commercial anymore than gun ownership means that you are a criminal looking to rob somebody ;-) )

I think usage is the determining factor the CDL / DOT # think but I could be wrong....(I did call the DOT people in Richmond and they are supposed to call me back....I guess I am on their "radar" since I gave them my phone number to call back on but again it would only be for personal use so I think I should be fine.....Hopefully)

As an example of usage, several years back I had a gas dually truck that got 5 MPG (it was handy for moving heavy stuff but I didn't use it much on account of the 5 MPGs it normally got)....

Anyways, It was old so I had antique plates put on it to save money on property tax and insurance (antique tags in VA means no work vehicle, no driving to / from work, only drive for pleasure or to maintain vehicle or to/from shows).

The truck had been sitting for awhile and I was getting worried about the gas getting old and gumming up the carb so I decided to trim the bushes trees on my property and haul the stuff to the landfill to give the truck a workout and use up the old gas and fill with new....TO haul the clippings I borowed my work trailer (with company signs on it)
Dis the trimming and proceeded to go to the landifll.

Next thing I know I was pulled over by a state trooper....when he asked me why I thought he pulled me over, I replied I had no idea (nor speeding, current inspection etc)....I really had no idea....Then he proceeded to tell me it was because I was using an antique tagged vehicle for commercial use.....I told him it was not commercial use but rather personal use (trim my stuff on my property) and the run was for maintenance of the vehicle (using up fuel before it got to varnishing the carb and keeping the battery charged).
.....I even invited him to follow me back to my house and do a DNA test on the cuttings to see that they matched what was in my borrowed trailer....He did not take me up on that and just let me go with a warning and informed me it was not legal to use antique vehicles to do commercial work....I left and dumped the clippings off and went home.

As far as me picking up the equipment, I realize a dually pulling a yellow construction type trailer (backhoe pro trailer by Econloline) with a machine on it looks commercial more so than a 450 / 550 hauling an RV (RV's being exempted also despite often being above 36K on the larger setups) I did plan on having my parents (in their 80's) come with me and kind of make it a family type trip as well so, I think that would also serve to show the non commercial nature of my trip (we also plan on sight seeing before and after the pickup of the machine)....

Side note: I did talk to a lady about getting DOT numbers (they said if over 10K I needed them BUT I did tell them this is non commercial so why DOT #'s?...I did say no other RVer I know of has a DOT number (whether they are legal or not I am not sure....just never known one with one).

Even tho the number is free (can get it online) I told her I really didn't want numbers all over the side of my personal truck....I asked her if I got the number can I just carry the number with me?....She gave me the local help line to ask them questions).....I haven;t heard back from them.

Anyways, keep the input coming...it is helpful to see what I may be up against....I do have to continue to research this.

Side note: If I do get a cdl I would still think there would be a distinction between personal / private use and commercial use altho at that point it may be a moot point because I would have a cdl at that point and that is theoretically good for either situation....Hmmm

Thanks!

Andrew

 

[SnoKing]

From Virgina's DMV:

What is a Commercial Motor Vehicle?

A commercial motor vehicle can be defined as:
A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more
A combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more if the vehicle(s) being towed has a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds
A vehicle that carries 16 or more passengers, including the driver
Any size vehicle that transports hazardous materials and that requires federal placarding

Who are Commercial Drivers?

Commercial drivers are all individuals, whether paid or volunteer, who operate commercial motor vehicles. Volunteer drivers of church buses or private or public school buses and mechanics who test drive commercial vehicles must meet commercial driver's license requirements.
Commercial driver's license requirements do not apply to:
Operators of emergency vehicles, such as firefighters
Active duty military personnel operating military vehicles
Operators of vehicles, such as recreational vehicles and rental moving vans, used only for personal use
Operators of farm vehicles if:
The vehicle is used by farmers to move farm goods, supplies or machinery to or from their farm
The vehicle is used within 150 miles of the farm, and
The vehicle is not used as a common or contract motor carrier.
You may not hold a Virginia-issued commercial driver license (CDL) and a Virginia-issued photo ID.

CDL Classifications, Endorsements, and Restrictions

CIP Endorsements CDL Endorsements CDL Restrictions
CDL Classifications
You should get your commercial driver's license (CDL) for the class of vehicle that you plan to drive.
The class of a vehicle is determined by its gross vehicle weight rating and the manufacturer's design. The vehicle's class determines the type of CDL and any endorsements that you are required to have. If you drive a redesigned or altered vehicle, the type of CDL and endorsements that you need is determined by the vehicle's original class and not by the class of the redesigned vehicle.
Class A
Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more if the vehicle(s) being towed has a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 10,000 pounds. Vehicles in this class include:
Tractor-trailer
Truck and trailer combinations
Tractor-trailer buses

Appears 26,000 is a magical number!


SNOKING

 

[Bob V]

In Oregon NON RV trailers are licensed by the weight. 8,000 and under are regular plates and don't require special truck plates. If you are over 8,000 you MUST have truck plates rated for the amount you will haul prices start around $500 a year. If you go over there is a BIG fine. Doesn't matter if you are commercial or personal use. Then you NEED to check your insurance, hauling that heavy you will probably need a different policy.

 

[AEdelheit]

Are you expecting an answer more towards what you want to hear by posting the exact same question in another section???? Good luck with that...................

 

[jhenderson]

What the hell is with the hash marks around all your posts? Bad 1st impression.

 

[GAmes]

Don't confuse DOT number requirements with drivers license class requirements. I have a DOT number because I use my truck commercially, but no CDL because I don't go over 26,000 GCWR. You don't need a DOT number, but do need a class A drivers license, whether it is for personal use or not. VA drivers license requirements are on the net. Your friends are mistaken.

 

[Bob V]

I can tell you what you want to hear, but we would both be wrong

 

[BIGNASTY]

Don't know about any of the DOT stuff, I haul a really heavy stock trailer full of Beasts and a Gooseneck flat with some really heavy things on it, go right on by the Scales on Hwy 200 and Hwy 83 by the house, and even run over their scales and go inside when the coffee cup is in need of a re-fill and not one word about it, and I know that sometimes its very close if not overloaded.

A side note you have your home and truck in a LLC ? I did that for about a year LONG LONG AGO, you should get a lawyer and sit down and have a talk with them about what can happen to both of them in the event of a fender bender. JMO

BIG

 

[EGroeneveld]

In Oregon NON RV trailers are licensed by the weight. 8,000 and under are regular plates and don't require special truck plates. If you are over 8,000 you MUST have truck plates rated for the amount you will haul prices start around $500 a year. If you go over there is a BIG fine. Doesn't matter if you are commercial or personal use. Then you NEED to check your insurance, hauling that heavy you will probably need a different policy.

Yep, Oregon here too. I'm an Accountant, my truck is ''T'' plated cause my enclosed trailer for quads and RZRs is rated over 10K...my trailer is perm plated. 100% personal use. I license the combination at 26K cause my Truck Camper gets included in the weight....Several friends have been busted for not being T plated while towing their buggies and offroad Jeeps on 10-14 k trailers. Even though 100% personal use...and no CDL worries since it is not commercial.

Every state is different, tread carefully....I'd personally, knowing the combined load is 26k or more, I'd let someone else handle it or skip the ''deal''

 

[AndrewKing]

Update : I spoke with an attorney here in Va and apparently code section 46.2 - 341.4 exempts the weight limit for personal use....of course she said you could still be pulled over and may have to discuss the situation with the officer but technically for personal use the weight limit is exempted. (2-27-15 )

She is giving me referrals to lawyers in the the other states (NC, SC, GA and FL) that I would have to travel through.....hopefully they also have exemptions for personal use as well.

Update : a man from the FCMSA just called me and is supposed to call me back in a bit regarding the personal use issue VS the greater than 26K weight rating of my towing setup.....he acknowledged the recreational aspect being exempted but seemed to be a little concerned about the commerce aspect (meaning transportation of something).....Appears I don't need authority since I am or will be purchasing the machine when I get there (i.e. owner of item being transported VS transporting something for somebody else). (2-21-15)....of course given what my attorney said with the va code above earlier I wonder why he is still researching?)...anyways, we'll see...

Sitting on pins and needles...

Andrew

 

[AndrewKing]

Update :2-27-15 about 12:55 PM .....Mr Anderson from the FMCSA called me back...no need for CDL, No need for Authority, and no need for DOT number for personal use when I transport this machine for personal use....appears all the regs apply for business use / business transportion etc... )he went through regulation 383.5 under the commerce section of rules and regulations

I asked him if the different states had to be contacted regarding their rules on the matter and he said no he is federal and that supercedes state since I would not be classified as commercial then commercial state regulations would not apply to me in my case.....I am saving his name and number just in case!....only thing better would have been for me to tape the conversation but seems like everything is a go....

Hopefully my situation helps others in my same situation....and to a degree it restores my faith in the "system"

Side note : My attorney here in VA still wanted me to contact attorneys in all the states I will be traveling through....so far here is what I found today from attorneys in the various states I will have to pass through:

1) VA-Exempted for personal use....i.e. no CDL (even with GVWR above 26K) required for getting machine used for personal use

2) NC - Researching....but initial guess OK but will get back with me

3) SC - Follows FMCSA guidelines (NOTE : Man from FMCSA said OK for personal use earlier to day so CDL not required....26K+ GVWR not an issue for personal use)

4) GA - Researching...

5) FL - Gave me phone number to Fl dept or transportation and said for me to call them on Monday

Interesting side note : I asked the man from the FMCSA if I needed to contact the individual states , he said no Fed law (as interpreted by him and his office said) I am non commercial in what I want to do so CDL requirements not needed in each separate state....therefore I was OK ....despite the GVWR over 26K....My va attorney wanted me to call the other lawyer offices so that is what I did.

Hope this may help others in or potentially in a situation similar to mine.

Andrew

 

[GAmes]

Update : I spoke with an attorney here in Va and apparently code section 46.2 - 341.4 exempts the weight limit for personal use..

I guess you didn't bother to actually look at the code. "Apparently" ??????? Nope. Virginia code section 46.2 - 341.4 is definitions, nothing more. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/46.2-341.4.HTM

The FMCSA, CDL and DOT references are red herrings. A simple google check of DOT number requirements would have verified what I told you. They are for commercial vehicles over 10,000 GVWR/GCWR. FMCSA stands for Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. You are not a motor carrier, and do not fall under FMCSA regs. You are naive to think that their regs supercede the states drivers license requirements. Just because a class of drivers license has the word "commercial" in it has a lot of people confused, and I guess you are one of them. Texas (and several other states) have gone through the trouble of making a non-commercial class A drivers license available to cover rigs over 26,000 GCWR. Most state legislators are too lazy to do so, so those states only have a CDL-A class for those rigs. A simple reading of the online drivers license class types from Virginia's web site or a trip to the local DMV will confirm you need a class A drivers license to operate a combo with a weight rating over 26,000 pounds.

 

[SnoKing]

In post #5, did I not point that out???? Of course I gave up my CDL years ago! I drove this tanker in the late 70's. Titan 90 Chevy, 350 Detroit, 13 speed Roadranger. Snoking

#ad


Those from the NE might see that it was a beer truck tractor before we bought it.

#ad

 

[GAmes]

In post #5, did I not point that out???? Of course I gave up my CDL years ago! I drove this tanker in the late 70's. Titan 90 Chevy, 350 Detroit, 13 speed Roadranger. Snoking

Yes you did, and in the OP's duplicate post I posted the link to VA. He has blinders on and is only looking for someone to confirm/agree with his speculations.