Help! 92 shut off tonight

[J DeMaio]

Hey guys:



I was moving down the interstate tonight and all of the sudden, the truck shut down. I went to a truck stop and got some fuel conditioner. The engine rolls over but it wont fire; it acts as it's not getting fuel. I tried to get the fuel filter off, its been a while since ive changed it, and I couldn't so I'll have to get to it sunday afternoon. The funny thing is is that when I would pump the lift pump, it pumped hard for a time or two, then act as it wasn't pumping. I just replaced this lift pump about a year ago. Is it bad? We cracked the bleeder screw on the filter head and rolled it with the starter, nothing came out. My fuel gauge showed about ~1/4 to 1/8 of a tank of fuel left and the low fuel or water in fuel light never came on. Do these trucks have a fuel pump in the fuel tank or just the transfer pump and injection pump? I checked and it had oil, oil pressure was good, the water never got hot or anything like that. I'm sure its a fuel problem. I'll start at the fuel filter, should I replace the transfer pump also?



Thanks boys. Getting towed on a roll-back is a real pain. The worst part is that the boys and I were just going out to dinner, we're all farmers anyway and the farm trucks are cummins powered dodges also, they never had this happen to them though



John

 

[Wayno]

No fuel pump in the tank , just the lift pump on the side of the motor . I made the mistake of changing out the lift pump on my truck when I bought it because it was the original pump and a friend told me that those pumps didn't last long . After I changed it with a after market pump the pump would only last about a year . I got tired of buying lift pumps every year so I put a electric pump on mine and put it in the same place that the factory lift pump was in and it has lasted over two years now with out going out . If I ever go back to the lift pump that belongs on the truck I will go back to Cummins and get a pump from them .

 

[RGT]

you might try cracking the line before the filter and pumping to see if you are getting fuel to there, I have had problems with previous vehicles where pickup screens/lines are plugged with crap and ice causing same problem... in one case I used pressureized air to blow back into the tank and heard a thwack as something was shot out of the line and hit the tank side, do this with thefuel cap off as you don't want to pressurize your tank, when I pulled the drain plug on the tank and let some fuel flow out out came a ball of crap packed solid with ice... . good luck

 

[J DeMaio]

I thought that the fuel pump I installed was a carter or federal mogul. It was like 70 bucks. I'm going to get the filter off first then probably take the lift pump off also. I'll begin in about 2 hours. I'll report back with the findings.



John

 

[DPKetchum]

A qtr. or 1/8 of a tank of fuel?I don't trust those fuel sending units enough to trust that there is fuel in the tank.

 

[AMikonis]

Don't forget to check the connection to the fuel shutoff solenoid. Make sure you're getting 12V there with the key on. Make sure the connection is clean and tight. I and a couple others have had our trucks quit because of a loose connection there.

 

[midwestdually]

did you run out of fuel???that is my guess... . i recently bought a 1990 and was bringing it home and i had a little less than a quarter tank and she just upped and died... and i knew exactly what it was ... out of fuel..... called a tow truck ... had them bring fuel... after some crankin on it... she started back up... i am willing to bet it is either fuel or the shutoff solenoid... . i also had one of those die on my old 89 on the interstate..... thank god i wasnt to far from home and had amoco motor club... .

 

[J DeMaio]

Well guys:



I took the old filter off and poured the fuel into a bucket; well, there was quite a bit of dirt in it. I tried the lift pump and it worked fine with that old filter off. I installed a new one, primed it, then cracked the injectors and rolled it over, it still had no intentions of firing. I checked the stutoff solenoid, it clicks with the key on and pulling/hooking up the wire. I talked to a fuel injection man today, he told me to take the solenoid out and look for metal shavings. Then loosen up a fuel line and hook up one of my old injectors and see if the injection pump has much pressure. He said that the pump could be bad due to dirt or if not that, then a timing problem like the front timing gears or another problem. It's not turning out too good. I'll work on it a little more tomorrow. What happens if the KDP strikes? Is it evident by looking at the front gear case(will it be leaking oil)? It does not smoke whatsoever while rolling it. Any more suggestions greatly appreciated.



John

 

[dpuckett]

Take out your AFC pin/ diaphragm setup, and see if the guide pin slides when you move the throttle. I had that problem, and I would have never thought it would have made that much difference. Got fuel to the injectors, but not enough pressure to pop the injectors open. Took the top off, and the guide pin was stuck. Took some penetrating oil, and put some grease on the inner "well" portion of the pin. Started right up. BUT... . I would only recommend this as a last resort after all else failed. It is a bit of a pain to get the throttle shaft and linkages reset back during reassembly. Good luck, and if you have any problems, and need a pump rebuilt, I would suggest going to a shop that does mainly pickups, not just someone that has a Bosch diploma on the wall. Apparently, there are a few adjusting differences between p/u and other VE apps, though one wouldnt think so. I got mine redone at a shop that didnt do too many pickup pumps, and was not real impressed with the results. Had to do a lot of tweaking and drivng to get it like I had it before.



Daniel

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

John,



With all due respect to the diesel mechanic,... . do NOT loosen a fuel line and hook an old injector to it for testing... ... You can make more work for yourself... trust me here. .



First, make sure the filter is fully charged with fuel. Then loosen the bleed screw on the side of the block and crank the engine till fuel comes out, then tighten it.

You can have someone crank the engine over while you crack loose 1 injector nut. Just crack it loose a bit, if the pump is working you'll get a good shot of fuel (in pulses) from the line you've loosened. It shouldn't just dribble it should squirt pretty good.

Do each one like that till they all puke out some fuel (have big rag handy to soak up the fuel).

Once you've done that, and they all shoot some fuel, hit it again and see if she starts.



As for the fuel solenoid, once you CAREFULLY remove it, look to see if there are metal shavings or bits of black stuff. If so, there is an o-ring or similar thing on the end of the solenoid that can fall apart.

As you pull the solenoid out, do so carefully and make sure you don't loose any little parts/o-ring etc.



Oh, BTW, I'm sending you a PM on that other thing tonite too...



Bob.

 

[paccool]

If it just quit without any sputtering, almost has to be the pump or the solenoid. My bet is on the solenoid. When mine quit a year or so ago, was just like someone turned the switch off. Truck simply quit running. Was towing the travel trailer down 19th ave in San Francisco when this happened, got interesting before I was able to coast around a corner and get off 19th.



Do what Bushwaker suggested. You can reinstall the solenoid without the spring and plunger and if that is the problem the truck will start. You will need to turn off the engine using the shutoff lever on the side of the pump.

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

I'm with paacool. From the sounds of it I would suspect the fuel shutoff solonoid. The connections to it are a problem area. I would clean them then test the start if it goes then replace them.

Good luck

Bob

 

[J DeMaio]

Well boys:



I tested fuel solenoid and it is good. I'm going to pull injectors and pump saturday. I want the injectors pulled to see that there was no harm done to them. The pump definately has a problem. It has fuel to the injectors; I hooked up one of my old injectors and it wouldn't pump any fuel through it.



Thanks,



John

 

[J DeMaio]

Well guys:



I talked to the pump man last night. He said that the pump and injectors were fine; he didn't know what problem I had. He said that when I get ti back together to test the fuel lift pump, there could also possible be dirt in the tank. He asked me for sure if i had fuel in the tank. When It shut down it showed 1/4 tank and the low fuel light was not on. The last time I filled up it worked just fine. So. . what suggestions do you guys have now.



Thanks,



John

 

[midwestdually]

go get a 5 gallon gas tank... fill it with fuel. . and then let us know... . if you are out of fuel ... . check the most obvious... the fuel sending units on these dodges are notorious for going bad... when i brought my truck back from new york i was in ohio cruisin along and thought i probably should get some fuel even tho i had just a little under a 1/4 tank ... sure enuf all of a sudden the truck shut off and i lost power... i knew it was that i ran out of fuel... .



so about an hour later the tow guy came... threw 5 gallons in... . cranked and cranked... primed and primed... nothin... so we hit her with a shot of ether!! didnt want to do it... but had to... just didnt let the grid heater go... hit it with ether and cranked. . no grid heater!!that is the important thing... . did that. . pedal pumped and to the floor and after about 5 seconds of crankin she popped off. . try that... . but put fuel in that tank!sorry bill for not tellin ya... but oh well. . wasnt a big deal

 

[phillips5]

I had a problem on my old 89 it didnt die on me but i had to crank it for ever to get it to start. Talked to my fuel pump friend . Seams there is a cap screwed into the head of the pump in the midle of the line connections that was bad. He was right and it takes a special socket and about 10 minuts. If the fuel pump man says the pump is good ,the lift pump pumps fuel, the shutoff works, Then when you put it together it should fire. Some times it taks for ever to get the air out of the pump before it can fill the lines. Is it a stick put it in third pull it down the road (with the clutch ingaged) about 30 mph with your fuel pedal to the floor until you catch up with the toe vehical. This works with automatics also using a starter button tool and your starter and battery are good shape. Put in 1st get pulled 25 mph hit starter button the clutchpacks will engage when the weels turn the engine let go of the starter button. When you catch the toe vehical that means the engine is running . It sounds verry shade tree but it works.

 

[DPKetchum]

Thump the bottom of fuel tank with a hammer etc. If it don't sound like a ripe watermelon well you know the rest. Honestly if there empty you'll know by thumping.

 

[J DeMaio]

I was pounding on it with a flashlite last night and it was a loud noise; just sounded like plastic. I'll get 10 gallons of fuel this weekend and get my pump back together. If I ran it out of fuel and the gauge quit working like I'm now thinking, this is an EXPENSIVE tank of fuel Thanks Phillips5: I've already checked that cap on the back, that is one thing he had me check before I pulled the pump.



Thanks for the help!



John

 

[J DeMaio]

Well guys:



I installed injection pump and it still didn't start. I pumped primer on transfer pump and fuel came out. I rolled engine over and no fuel came out. So I installed a new transfer pump. It did the same thing. I pulled #1 valve cover and they weren't rolling. Looks like cam is not turning; I have to start tearing the motor apart now What happened to this rig? Is there a keyway on the cam that is stripped?



JOhn

 

[Philip]

All of the valve train on our engines is gear drive. If the cam is not turning. You might have a KDP problem. I hope it didn't come out and get caught in the gears. Which could lead to the camshaft nose breaking off.