Archived HELP - changed fuel filter and now won't start!

[GRusche]

I changed the fuel filter on my '01 last night - hopped in the cab and turned on the key. I had to wait for the intake heaters to cycle-was about 32 F. Istarted it, it ran for about a minute, then coughed, choked and died. I cycled it again and bumped the starter, heard the l/p run, tried it again. No dice. I decided to crack open the banjo fitting from the l/p to the filter housing, bump the starter and visually look for fuel to run from the open fitting. Nothin'. The filter housing never got above 1/4 full.



Is it possible that the pump from the fuel tank isn't getting fuel to the l/p? Maybe I'm crazy, but usually when I start it I hear a "whssszt" coming from behind me - I thought that was the tank pump pressurizing - is that right? I know that I don't hear that any more!



I have had zero trouble with power loss, hard starts, etc. I honestly don't know how to solve the problem, and I don't want to give the dealer free rein until I can try to point them in the right direction. I need the rig to haul water to cows, any help would be most appreciated.



Sorry for the long post, wanted to get as much info in as possible.



Guy

 

[csutton7]

G--we have two pumps on our trucks and both are on the engine--one is the high pressurre VP44 and the other one is a Carter lift pump--there's no pump in the tank--unless you've added one--it sounds like the Carter Lift Pump(it's bolted behind and a little lower than the fuel filter---you need to replace it ASAP--you don't to burn up that VP44--go to a CUMMINS shop and get the latest updated pump and then search the forums on lift pumps and you'll see these are known to fail and that many options have and are being tried to combat this--you might want to buy an extra one too----chris

 

[Ron Bissett]

First is there diesel in the tank , if so and you have no diesel coming out of the injector and you do not hear the pump running , the lift pump in dead . This some times will be found when the filter is changed , the injector pump will suck the flue through the lift pump from the tank ,and the truck will run fine but at some point the injector pump will fail . I suggest that you fill the filter with clean diesel to top of housing have banjo fitting cracked bump and then try to start watch for flue coming out of the line it may try to start . You may have to bleed more lines easy ones first three should do crank but don't burn out the starter . The lift pump is under warranty do get it changed and do get a fuel gauge and sender or mechanical gauge your choice . Read posts on fuel pump and gauge on this sight. Hope this helps . Ron in Louisville KY Oo.

 

[GRusche]

Thanks for the reply

csutton:



Thanks for the reply- the lift pump was my first thought.

It seems strange that I can make the l/p cycle and I can hear it run, but it does not pump any fuel and I have not suffered any problems like others have-power loss, etc.



I was under the impression that there was a pump on top of the fuel tank itself - am I wrong? Could I have messed something up when I changed the filter and caused the pump to run dry? I thought that this system was designed to purge the air so no system bleeding is required.



If it is the l/p, does someone have the Cummins part # for the new l/p? I don't have my TDR mag with me at work. I'll have to order the pump from Cummins in Fargo-no location in SD.



Thanks,

Guy

 

[GRusche]

Thanks for advice

Ron:

Thanks for the advice. I haven't tried to fill the filter housing, but will.



I am assuming that by filling it and bleeding the injector lines (right off the pump or on the head?) that this will help determine if the lift pump is bad? Has anyone had them fail but can still hear them run?



Thanks for all the advice,



Guy

 

[Ron Bissett]

Re: Thanks for advice

Originally posted by GRusche

Ron:

Thanks for the advice. I haven't tried to fill the filter housing, but will.



I am assuming that by filling it and bleeding the injector lines (right off the pump or on the head?) that this will help determine if the lift pump is bad? Has anyone had them fail but can still hear them run?



Thanks for all the advice,



Guy

Guy If the pump is ruining the only way for sure that is pumping is to see the fuel ,some pumps run but do not pump others do not run at all ,Your Dodge dealer can put a new up dated pump if you state will not start and you have bin having low power problem or no power . Why pay for a pump that you still have to send for the Cummins and Dodge are the same only have a different number new one ends with AA for second mod to basic pump. The pumps lift and injector are under the 100000 warranty . You can under your own buy from Cummins then Cummins warranty will cover that one but Dodge will be off the hook from then on for lift pump as the Numbers game . Don't know how long the Cummins warranty last . Do get a fuel pressure gauge then you can watch pump action from the drivers seat both prime and running . Ron in Louisville On second pump now . Psi idle 16 wot 10 running 15 to 16 P. S Forgot if you have a fuel gauge and while driving down the road you see a reading of o you are running on the injector pump or gauge is out. Ron

 

[csutton7]

G--yes you are wrong with the pump at the tank--there isn't one--do as Rons says--prime the filter--most times you will not have to bleed the injectors--but you may want to now---yes the Dodge dealer will have the pump to, but they will want to fix it for you and you may be with out your truck for a few days--maybe not, just be prepared--the fuel pressure guage is of the utmost importance as Ron says, so I'd being getting one pronto----chris

 

[GRusche]

Hooking up with Cummins

You guys have been a big help-the filter priming and injector bleeding will have to wait until I get home.



If I understand you correctly, I'm better off purchasing the l/p from Cummins - is that covered under the warranty from Dodge? Or will I simply purchase the l/p outright and then have a new warranty schedule that applies only to the new lift pump? I've never had to submit any warranty claims before - don't know where to start.



I also believe that you are correct, csutton, about the dealer wanting to do the work, look it over - I live 35 miles away; getting it to the dealer may be just as expensive as the lift pump itself.



Any other closing thoughts you can provide will always be appreciated.

 

[GRusche]

One last question

Hey guys,



Will I be able to tell if the VP44 has died by priming the filter?

Makes a HUGE difference if I get a replacement l/p from Cummins or let Dodge do the warranty work.



Thanks,

Guy

 

[Ron Bissett]

Re: One last question

Originally posted by GRusche

Hey guys,



Will I be able to tell if the VP44 has died by priming the filter?

Makes a HUGE difference if I get a replacement l/p from Cummins or let Dodge do the warranty work.



Thanks,

Guy

1 unless you like to spend money for some thing that you can get for free you are better off getting one from the dealer and the labor is also free under the warranty . 2 the pump from Cummins is the same carter pump with a different sn on the pump . The warranty on the Cummins pump is for a period of months ask the dealer for the information at Cummins. The warranty from Dodge cont. to the end of the 100000 mi and you can get as many pumps as the terms of above are in affect. Do get a Gauge You can do it your self see the post on that. Read more post on your truck . You fill out no forms for warranty work call and when you bring truck in the writer will ask you what is wrong == Low power towing hard start not running right . Ron in Louisville KY Oo. Oo. Oo.

 

[Ron Bissett]

Re: One last question

Originally posted by GRusche

Hey guys,



Will I be able to tell if the VP44 has died by priming the filter?

Makes a HUGE difference if I get a replacement l/p from Cummins or let Dodge do the warranty work.



Thanks,

Guy

If it runs the VP 44 is OK Pump from cummins 139 to 170$ what the traffic will bare Your dime and time . Ron in Louisville KY

 

[JWhitcomb]

I have been wondering about this and can't seem to recall reading about it. Will the dealer cover the tow if you have your truck hauled in and the lift pump turns out to be dead. If you have a long distance to get your dead truck to a dealer, I would be inclined to get one from Cummins and install it at home. Then I would talk real hard to the dealer about the paying for it. If the dealer balked I would start sending letters to DC and keep it up until they payed you back. It can be done. This is a huge amount of money we pay for these trucks and then find out DC won't back you up.

 

[GRusche]

Just got back from dealer

J Whitcomb:



I just got back from the dealer and they informed me that the cost of towing will be covered if it is the l/p that caused the trouble. I will be scouring the site for fuel pressure gauge info as soon as I get this all straightened out. It sounds like it will be in the shop by tomorrow morning.



I sure appreciate all the good advice you have been giving. Perhaps I'll get enough experience to be able to pass it on someday.



Guy

 

[Ladders]

Call the 800#

if your under the 3/36. If you have an extended warranty, it depends on the one you have if the tow is covered. The 800 # (listed for the warranty) will tow to the nearest dealer (yea, rite!!) or at least is suspossed to (they tried to tow me the opposite way 95 miles one time when I was 82 miles in the way I was headed - used AAA that time).



Any hows, the DC pump is gud for 100k on most units (some of the older ones are only 80k). If you buy the Cummins and use it, DC will drop warranty (on the pump) and let you and Cummins do it from then on. Stick with the stealer until you run outta warranty ('specially if they treat you rite and do the work you need). Rare to find the dealer that doesn't deserve the "stealer" nick! If you gots one keep him close to your heart (specally the diesel tech -if he worth his salt).



Just another waste of my 0. 015$ worth...



SOTSU!!

\\BF//



PS: 25 Nov 100k and now 101. 5k -- soooo I AM MY OWN WARRANTY STATION!!!!! BOMBS AWAY!!!!!

 

[GRusche]

L/P delivery unknown

Just got a call from the dealer-told me the l/p is on National, but high priority order, not back order. They have no idea when it will show up. I asked whether the Cummins l/p would suffice and the obvious answer was NO. I inquired about the labor and towing if I bought the Cummins l/p and they said NO. I finished by saying if DC had their *hit together they wouldn't have such a backlogged problem with the l/p in the first place!



Stalled in South Dakota... for now

 

[WadePatton]

That's why my truck has a Cummins LP on it now.



After I tested the pump with a Briar Hopper gauge and found that I was going below 2# at full boost, I started calling Dodge places. This was at 50k miles. They hem-hawed around and acted like failed lift pumps were as rare as Spotted Owls. I then found a decent DC service guy who said that it would be at least two days for them to diagnose it and one day to get the part and maybe another to put it on! He agreed that if I wanted to keep the use of my vehicle that I could get a Cummins LP and put it on myself.



So I drove 1 hour each way and spent 2 hours putting the LP on. NOT ONE MINUTE without my truck.



Now I have voided my DC LP warranty--big deal. I'd rather cough up 150 bucks and some labor every 50,000 miles than leave my truck with those bozos for 3-4 days.



You might feel the same now. Too bad it's too late. Only 36,000 left on my engine "warranty" anyway.

 

[Fireman Dave]

Re: L/P delivery unknown

Originally posted by GRusche

Just got a call from the dealer-told me the l/p is on National, but high priority order, not back order. They have no idea when it will show up. I asked whether the Cummins l/p would suffice and the obvious answer was NO. I inquired about the labor and towing if I bought the Cummins l/p and they said NO. I finished by saying if DC had their *hit together they wouldn't have such a backlogged problem with the l/p in the first place!



Stalled in South Dakota... for now

That's interesting. My lift pump is shot, but the dealer told me they were ordering one from Cummins.

 

[GRusche]

Back in for testing

Well, I'm going back in to the shop to have them test the l/p they installed. If the fuel level gets below half, I get "hard start" symptoms. A couple weeks ago after hauling water for cows, I went to start and it sputtered and killed. It had just at 1/4 tank of fuel. This morning it was about 6 above - when I cycled the heaters and then cranked it over, it started but was very erratic. I am not specifically blaming the new l/p, but I just want to make sure that if it is, it will be covered under warranty.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Guy