Help! Clutch install gone BAD!

[Ross]

I had a local transmission shop install a new clutch late last week and the thing won't release. Clutch company says it's a bad install, mechanic says it's a bad clutch. Mechanic has removed the new clutch to make sure he didn't do anything wrong, and it looked like it was installed properly. How hard can it be, right?

Symptoms: You can put the truck in gear, push in clutch, and start vehicle. Everything is fine. Then take vehicle out of gear, and go to neutral. After this, you cannot get the transmission in any other gear without turning the engine off, and putting it in gear again. Partial release... ...

The flywheel was refinished, very little was taken off... .

I would have done the job myself, but my real job and family commitments don't allow the time. I thought I would let the professionals do it and not have to worry about it... Ha! Now I have twice the worries as I did before.

Clutch company is sending another clutch (at my expense) and won't credit me for the first clutch until they get it back and bench test it. What is the chance that their "bench test" reveals a defective clutch? Slim to none.

This ordeal is not nearly over... . My hunch is that the next clutch won't work either, and I'll then own two of them.

If I hadn't been such a tight @#$, I would have been better off buying one from Joe Donnelly. This is going to be an expensive lesson for me. When it's all said and done, I will have spent enough to own one of the best clutches..... I hope you guys can learn from my mistakes.

 

[B.G. Smith]

With a new clutch plate the slave cylinder will have to travel just about full stroke to release the clutch. Make sure the clutch master cyl. and the slave cylinder are ok. I installed a clutch plate with wrong side toward flywheel years ago and it wouldn't release but it made a hell of a noise. bg

 

[Old Account - 243]

I would bleed the slave cylinder first if it's possible.

I just remembered something else. When the dealer had my 99 1/2 ton, the tech stripped one bolt of two that hold the slave cylinder to the bellhousing when they replaced it. Check to make sure the slave cylinder is installed correctly.

243

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99 QC 2500 ST 4X4 SB 24V/5speed 3. 54/LSD Driftwood/Agate
Walker 21468, VDO, Bridgestone 285/75/16 MT's, RS9000's, Hella 500's

http://www.0hassleisp.com/dwilk/243'sRamPage.html

-- email address removed --

[This message has been edited by 243 (edited 01-23-2001). ]

 

[TXRam]

Ditto on the slave cylinder - I had that problem years ago and I seem to remember that they re-installed it backwards, if that makes any sense.

Did the guy re-install the old clutch per chance? Will it work with it?

 

[Amianthus]

Dude, first your sig. What setup are you running? Also, who's clutch did you have installed?

To my knowledge, there is really no way to bleed the slave cylinder. I couldn't bleed mine anyway. I will say that the release fork that is in the bell housing gave me some troubles on the install. It kept wanting to disconnect from the pivot point on the far side of the bell housing. That could cause some of what you are talking about. Let us know some more of the details and we will try to help. If you need more advice, email me and I will do the best I can.

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'99 2500 ISB QC SLT (No Leather!), 4x4, 5sp w/McLeod, 4:10, BD-II, PE, PE-EZ, 4"exh. , Pac-Brake, A-Pillar gauge pod w/boost and pyro, Line-X, V-1, lights, siren, lic. plt. frame says "Diesel Fumes Make Me Horny!", and much more goofy stuff.

 

[Ross]

The clutch manufacturer told the mechanic to "reverse bleed" the slave... . Both the mechanic and myself told the guy that during removal, the hydraulic system (lines & slave) was never opened, uncoupled, or compromised in any way, so there was no way to introduce any air into the system. He said, "do it anyway. " The mechanic says he did, but I have no way of knowing if he actually did. He has not replaced the old clutch. We're waiting on another new one to arrive.

As far as my signature, I don't want to list the name of the clutch quite yet. I don't want to risk posting damaging information about a product when I'm not quite sure where the fault really lies. As you can tell from the first post, it's NOT Joe D's clutch. By the time this ordeal is over, I will have spent enough to get one of his clutch's, and would have had some reliable tech support. My BIG mistake.

My other mods include DD Stage II injectors, a TST 10-level PowerMax Competition, 4" exhaust, & various peripherals.

[This message has been edited by Ross (edited 01-23-2001). ]

 

[ramman]

Be sure to check the clutch arm as it is a one way install but will fit either way,also the pilot bearing will give these symptoms. I had a centerforce break the center partially out and it had the exact symptom as yours.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

If the shop used good judgment, they removed the two nuts holding the slave cylinder, and just moved it to the side. No bleeding needed or possible as far as I know. Did they forget to install a pilot bearing? If they hung the transmission from the clutch disk hub, it would bend. [that is, some misalignment and incomplete support by the transmission jack] Either of these mistakes would cause the disk to "precess" instead of running "true" and it would not release. It would be hard to misinstall the throw out bearing. There are other problems that could cause the incomplete release, mostly defects in the pressure plate. Hope the shop didn't charge too much. Shouldn't take over 4 hours to change the clutch and flywheel.

 

[Amianthus]

Joe D. ,

First off, I have to agree with you on the throwout bearing install. Mine didn't look like it would go in any other way. Second, I would have to disagree with the time estimate. 4 hours?! In my dreams! #ad


When I installed my McLeod, there was something about grinding some material off of the clutch fork if there was a measurement that wasn't met. I believe it was approx. 1/8" off the sides of the fork to help. I don't have the installation instructions with me so I do not accurately recall what they said. Joe D. , being the clutch diety that you are, could you expound on this? Could that also be a problem?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I haven't installed a McLeod so can't comment on any special problems related to it. As for 4 hours, I was being conservative. A friend and I have changed the clutch in my 4x4 in less than 4 hours. Very little of it actually was speeded up by having two people.

 

[ynot]

Grinding the metal off of the back side of the release forks was to insure the fork was getting full release on let-off for a higher standing clutch, and wouldn't pertain to this scenario. It consisted of grinding 1/8" to 3/16" deep from the first "90*" behind the bearing end of the fork (long ways), cut as a taper about 1 1/2" long to feather out towards the slave piston end. You can gauge the progress of the grind by holding it over the stub and resting it against the input shaft boss of the transmission, where it rests normally... T

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Tony L. Welch
Welch Performance Diesel
2001 2500 QC/SB, ETH/DEE, trailer tow, camper special, Hunter green, loaded except leather, Infinity 6 with Rockford Lightning 4200i amp/ Rockford Punch 250i sub amp, Alpine BBE 11ch EQ and Boston Pro 6x9's rear, Kicker Solobaric sub, Lowrance GPS, Galaxy 73 side band, Brite Box, "Turbo Saver" shutdown, 2whl low kit, stainless rocker panels & fender gaurds, 12. 5x33's on Pro-69 directionals, diamond plate bed and gate liner w/rubber mats, 14cm2 ported, Pacbrake (ported), compressor housing and elbow ported, intake crossover ported, K&N in factory airbox sleeved into cowl, 4" Dynomax, triple gauges (ISSPRO/ console), PE maxed, DDIII's. Clutch #7 on the way...

 

[Ross]

Update:

The 2nd clutch came in, and it was installed by the same mechanic last night. Installation went without a hitch, and it works well. Higher pedal pressure (expected), but it works! Evidently, the 1st clutch is defective. I must now package it up, send it back, and wait for them to verify that it was "bad" before they'll refund my money. #ad
#ad


Also, the shop charged me for 2 R&Rs (456. 00). Once for the 1st clutch, and then again for the 2nd one( 200. 00 + 200. 00 + 27. 00 (flywheel resurface) + tax). I don't blame them, it's not their fault, and I don't expect them to work for free.

I'm going to try to get the clutch company to pay for the additional labor for the 2nd R&R. What do you guys think my chances are?

 

[TXRam]

I'd personally request it, and, if they do not want to do it, I would let them know that I plan on letting my friends (TDR) about your problem and their customer service.

 

[Bigsaint]

Okay Ross, give it up... whose clutch was it ?

Scott W.

 

[Ross]

Here you go Bigsaint:

Clutch: Luk ProGold
Distributor: Dial-a-Clutch

Dial-a-Clutch has now stated that they will refund my money for the 1st clutch as soon as they recieve it (they won't wait for confirmation by Luk that it indeed was defective).

They will not pay the 200. 00 for the extra R&R. They said, how do we know your mechanic didn't screw up the install the first time, and then get it right the second? We weren't there to witness the intall!"

After much debate, they agreed to pay for shipping of the second clutch (79. 00) if it turns out to be defective. My reply was, "how do I know the technician didn't hose the diagnosis? I wasn't there to witness it!" Two can play this silly game.

One consolation: So far, the clutch has held through a couple of full throttle blasts, with no slip. Where the clutch used to slip in fourth gear very badly with the PM set on anything above level 2, now the rear tires "chirp" over pavement irregularities (4th gear), and no clutch slip whatsoever. This is with the PM set on level 5. I have not tried any blasts set beyond this. I want to give the clutch a chance to seat and break-in.

I doubt the clutch will hold when I give 'er everything she's got (levels 8 or 9), but for all trucks and most cars, I think I'm in pretty good shape to leave them in the smoke (literally).

I'll keep everyone posted about the reimbursement saga.....


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98 QC 3500 4X2 ISB 5-speed; 10-level Competition PowerMax; DD Stage II's; 4" exhaust turbo to tip; Luk ProGold; K&N; Amsoiled; Pillar Mounted Boost & Pyro; etc. , etc. ,

[This message has been edited by Ross (edited 01-25-2001). ]

 

[drawson]

Ross, Don't go high enough to slip your clutch. It seems that after they start slipping they get worse. I have a Luk Pro gold clutch and after installing 370 HP injectors, a 16 CM2 housingand having my #11 TST plate(280HP/685T) all the way forward it would slip only in slightly in 4th and real bad in fifth. I pushed the plate back to the stock position and it just bearly slipped in 5th. Now I'm only running my #12 Plate (230HP/605T) in the stock position and last saturday playing with a power stroke I got it to slip in 3rd.

Don't push it to the slip point!!!! I think it glazes the friction material which make the clutch slip worse.

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EAT'M UP
97 2500 Club 4X4 3. 54, Forrest Green/Driftwood, LSD 5 speed, & Psychotty Air System, TST #11, 370 HP injectors, timing at 16 deg. , 16CM2 housing, AFC spring kit, Geno's Exhaust Blanket, TST EGT gauge & 0-60 boost gauge in A Pillar, Cat-be-gone, 4" Dynomax Bullet muffler, Crome 4" turn down, Rad fan removed, AmsOil Through out, Geno's trans filter kit, AmsOil Bypass system, Lund Winter front, Leer Cab Level Shell Driftwood , 255/85R16, Dyno'd 342 HP pre injectors & turbo housing *NRA/USPSA member and proud of it*

 

[Ross]

As a horsepower contraceptive, I'm putting my cabover back on the rig this weekend. The added weight kinda takes the fun out of 3rd gear burn outs! #ad
#ad
#ad
Actually, I kinda baby the truck when the camper's on, so hopefully I can make this clutch last a while.

As I stated in an earlier post on this topic, I should have waited and saved up the extra cash for the Joe Donnelly Super Mega Sticks-Like-Glue clutch.

Live and learn.....

Thanks for the advise!

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98 QC 3500 4X2 ISB 5-speed; 10-level Competition PowerMax; DD Stage II's; 4" exhaust turbo to tip; Luk ProGold; K&N; Amsoiled; Pillar Mounted Boost & Pyro; etc. , etc. ,

 

[Bigsaint]

Thanks Ross. Sorry to read of your original misfortune but glad your on track now. If you get a chance, send me an e-mail in regards to your thoughts of the Powermax 3 adjustable box, specifically concerning the egt's. I have a Mcleod going in next week and want to be able to "challenge" it after break in. #ad


Scott W.

White 2001. 5 3500 ETH/DEE 4X4 Quad cab SLT,tow package and camper prep,Husky liners front and rear,DiPricol pyro,boost and oil temp gauges,Edge EZ,Mopar tonneau,Lund bug shield,PM tractor utility back up lights,Penda bed mat and blow by bottle is bye bye !!! I love the smell of diesel in the morning, it reminds me of... . VICTORY !!!
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1231655&a=9089608" TARGET=_blank><font color=red>My Truck</font></A>
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1231655&a=9089604" TARGET=_blank><font color=red>THE SAINTS</font></A>



[This message has been edited by Bigsaint (edited 01-26-2001). ]