Help interpreting oil analysis report

[bigceltic]

I got my first report back from Blackstone Labs. The Comments state:

Wear metals are high for this ISB, with copper being the most out of line. That shows wear at brass/bronze parts. Iron is
from steel parts, and chrome shows some excess ring wear. Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of
engine after about 6,800 miles on the oil. This much copper could show a crack, perhaps in the oil cooler. There is some
potassium present, which can show coolant, but not enough to say for sure. The TBN is strong at 6.3, but a longer oil
run isn't a good idea. Check this engine over for a problem and resample in 7,000 miles

I am worried about the copper. I did install (not too long ago) the Amsoil bypass filter, and the fittings it uses are copper (I believe) where the kit mounts to the factory filter. Could this have caused copper to get into my oil? Or are the fittings that come with the Amsoil kit brass? Any ideas? Anything I should be checking - get the oil cooler (I assume I have one) replaced as a precaution? Wait until the next sample (about 5k from now) to see if the numbers changed?

Thanks,
George

 

[AH64ID]

Any heavy towing on that oil sample? How long have you been running Amsoil?

Reason being that copper will leach out of components, oil cooler mainly, when the oil gets hot from a heavy tow.

Can you post a pdf or jpeg of the report?

 

[bigceltic]

I had 15K on it. Have been running Amsoil for about 2 years now. I did tow my 9K trailer a few times with this oil (through the CO mountains). I am using (currently) Premium API CJ-4 Synthetic 15W-40 Diesel Oil but will switch next time to the Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil after reading your posts about it for pre-2007 engines.

 

[AH64ID]

Soot is nice and low, and TBN is much better than expected for a CJ oil... I wouldn't worry about it, just sample at 7,500 miles and see where you are at.

 

[bigceltic]

Thanks, John. Will post the 7500 mi results when I get there.

 

[JCockerill]

i wouldn't get too alarmed, i had a similar run with blackstone. i run amsoil marine diesel oil 15-40 10k intervals with no problems. I think blackstone tends get you a little worried so you keep sending samples in... there are tons of cummins engines out there who never get sampled and run forever.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Sample said common at 6800 miles or so. You did 15K miles.

Your fine.

 

[bigceltic]

Sample said common at 6800 miles or so. You did 15K miles.

Your fine.

Yeah, thanks. I guess if they are comparing against a 6800 mile sample/standard, higher wear metals (esp, as John pointed out, may come from hot towing) it makes sense mine would be higher at more than double the comparison. I will sample at 7500 miles and see what I get. I usually follow the severe service schedule (7500) oil changes but figured I'd try the 15k interval with the use of the Amsoil filter and bypass filter as Amsoil says can be done. With the TBN number being good still, I figure I am ok.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Yep. All I ever look at with blackstone is TBN and potassium. As long as they are high I keep on running it.

 

[Tuesdak]

Sample said common at 6800 miles or so. You did 15K miles.

Your fine.

This. You could ask for a re-sample with a "DUH!" moment to look at actual miles on oil. Labs also miss different viscosity as I get 50 weight warnings back when I am actually running a 50 weight.

Copper is the only high number in the bunch. Again with sampling you are looking for a trend with your engine and anything that jumps out as an issue. It can take a few oil changes for an engine to get used to a new oil and this is specific to copper washing off the oil cooler due to additive changes among oil brands. Although the additives are a commodity they are still different between brands and show up where it matters: in oil samples. Repairs or new parts as you pointed out also are a source for spikes.

Changing oil brands on my 2003 spiked copper in the oil samples where the last change was low for copper.

 

[amsoilman]

High copper readings in a Cummins Engine is usually caused by the leaching of copper from the oil cooler. This is quite common with the Cummins engines in our trucks. I am not fond of "Blackstone Labs", as they use "universal" standards, which is based off the number of samples they do on an application.

 

[bigceltic]

High copper readings in a Cummins Engine is usually caused by the leaching of copper from the oil cooler. This is quite common with the Cummins engines in our trucks. I am not fond of "Blackstone Labs", as they use "universal" standards, which is based off the number of samples they do on an application.

Do you have an oil analysis lab that you would recommend?

 

[AH64ID]

oaitesting.com

It's recommended by Amsoil and my local Cummins.

I too don't like Blackstone.

 

[bigceltic]

oaitesting.com

It's recommended by Amsoil and my local Cummins.

I too don't like Blackstone.

I will try this one next time - may try sending to both Blackstone and OAI just for comparison sake.

 

[amsoilman]

My recommendation is "OIL ANALYZERS"which is a subsidiary of AMSOIL INC., they contract with "POLARIS LABS".

 

[bigceltic]

Here is my most recent 7500 (or close to it) Oil Analysis. What do you folks think? What could be causing the potassium? What about the Iron? The viscosity seems high as well. This was the oil that was in the truck when I blew my injector a couple of weeks ago. Anything I should get checked out?

 

[bigceltic]

Here is the OIL ANALYZERS Report - sent sample to them at same time as I did to Blackstone. Interesting how the numbers differ (potassium levels, soot, etc)

 

[Tuesdak]

The Viscosity going to 50 weight with a lack of (major) soot would be from oil overheating. (Oil is done and due for a change with that report.) Maybe the injector failure caused that. I would just sample (not change the oil) at 5000 miles and see what things look like. Then decide from the results to change it or run longer.

Curious as to how this truck gets used: works, tows, etc? Some good grades around you to be dragging trailer up for sure and summer temps at that.

 

[bigceltic]

The Viscosity going to 50 weight with a lack of (major) soot would be from oil overheating. (Oil is done and due for a change with that report.) Maybe the injector failure caused that. I would just sample (not change the oil) at 5000 miles and see what things look like. Then decide from the results to change it or run longer.

Curious as to how this truck gets used: works, tows, etc? Some good grades around you to be dragging trailer up for sure and summer temps at that.

This sample had a few trips towing through the CO mountains - 4 trips total in hot weather towing the 9000lb travel trailer. When the injector failed, I did hit some high EGTs. Also high EGTs on the 4 hr drive home from Glenwood Springs with the new BBis (replaced after failure) - EGTs now under control with help from John/AH64ID and his UDC magic. The majority of the time, though, it is 60 mi daily highway to work (round trip).

After taking the sample I changed the oil and both filters (main and bypass). I also switched to Amsoil Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine oil which I hear is better for my MY

 

[AH64ID]

I would call 3.4% soot major as Cummins doesn't want more than 3% so the oil is done. The soot could be why it is thickening but it also looks like the oil was hot with the elevated cooper leaching. I doubt the oil got too hot with synthetic unless your coolant got VERY hot (which I don't recall you mentioning in our emails).

It's all part of the 04.5-07 in-cylinder EGR but some engines make more soot than others. My 05 was on the higher end with the stock motor.

I have talked with OAI about the Cummins soot limit but they haven't changed their standards.

Blackstone is not a company I have ever had any faith in and this report is a good example of that.