Help with 06 EGT issues

[Devlin]

Hello all, long time subscriber/reader, always found what I needed to know by reading other posts till now. This is a truly great site, by the way, I've learned a ton.



I have had two Cummins Rams prior to my current one, an 01 5 speed manual and 04 6 speed manual with just AFE intakes and Edge EZ. Both pulled my 12K fiver great with no EGT issues at all I could hold 'em to the floor with RPM'S up and never got into the danger zone.



I now have an 06 auto because the wife doesn't like rowing the gears, and I'm regretting this decision big time after pulling my fiver this weekend. The truck is stock except for AFE intake, and my EGT's are through the roof. I can't even use the power its got, which is nowhere near what I'm used to.



I have to back out of it on even small hills, overdrive off, RPM"S up, because it starts going past 1300 fast. Lower RPM's, forget about, climbs out of site in a hurry.



I live in Washington state, and I havent even hit the mountain passes yet, these were just "hills" and the temp was only 40 degrees outside.



These are the same routes I always took with my old truck set-ups, with no issues. I can't imagine adding a power box will make egt's go down, so what should I do? By the way the most boost I see is about 28 PSI, is this normal for stock truck, my others turned 35+ with Edge box.



Sorry this post is so long, any help would be greatly appreciated. Devlin

 

[KBrasch]

I too have the same Problem. :{ empty 0- 65 my egts are 1350,1375. I have gotten rid of the cat, and put in a k & N filter.

I haven't even pulled my 5ther yet with gauges. last fall i did through the black hills and flat foot up the hills and never looked back but i wounder what my egt's were ?

I recently put edge juice w/attitude on but that is it for mods.



I herd if you put a high flow exhaust on it will lower egt's 200* but have'nt done that yet. i will in 2 weeks let you know if that works.

I also herd if you get rid of the baffles on the intake that lowers them a little too. other than that spend lots of $ and get twins that will really push the hot air out!Oo.

Hope this helps . .

 

[Prairie Dog]

Devlin, I live in Wa. too (western) and know what you mean about the hills. My 03 doesn't run as hot as your 06 but these trucks do run hot normally and it just wont hurt them to run 1300+ while pulling the hills.

I read that these engines are tested at 1500+ degrees for hours on end w/o any problems. Set the EZ to stock if your scared and you wont hurt it. BTW, 28 lbs is normal for stock.

My advice is to drop the hammer and flatten out Stevens or Snoqualmie!



Scotty

 

[Doughboy21kd]

Get a SMARTY... . :-laf :-laf ... . With a SMARTY you will have the oppisite... . I had to call Wagner and ask him if that was normal cause i was seeing low EGT's on the SW's with the added timing... . He said that the timing was pretty aggressive on some of the SMARTY SW's and that it was perfectly normal..... I even went as far as trying a different gauge and a new probe and still got the same results..... I have a hard time getting above 1300-1350.



B4 the Smartyi was seeing HIGH EGT's also, so i called Cummins Northwest here in spokane, wa and talked with a service tech for quite some time and they said that these new CR engines were set up to run up to 1500 for some time and that it wouldn't hurt it and that if it got to the point were is was gonna cause damage the computer would send a signal to the truck telling it to SHUT DOWN or throw it in limp mode until it cooled down to normal operating temps..... Weather thats true or not i couldn't tell ya... . But i am one that wouldn't wanna try it...

 

[Bob V]

Remember EGT stands for EXHAUST gas temperature. NOT combustion gas temperature. Add timing to a third gen and it will lower EGT, but it will RAISE combustion temps. I would be more worried about a Smarty equipped truck at1250 than a stocker running 1400. If it is stock you will not hurt it by using as it was designed.

 

[Devlin]

Thanks guys, I'm starting to feel a little better about the temps I'm seeing. This is the first cat. conv. equipped diesel I have owned, do you all feel there is any significant EGT reduction by getting rid of it, and adding a freer flowing muffler?

One other question if you don't mind, I cant seem to get my Jacobs exhaust brake to acutate in first gear with this auto trans. going down some of these steep hills, is it something I'm doing wrong or just the nature of the beast.



Thanks again for all the info, guys. Devlin

 

[wcjp]

I know someone with an 05. 5 CTD that did a turbo back straight pipe. Made no difference in power on the dyno and no EGT difference. Some claim EGT improvement. Might be upto individual trucks.



I think the 06' Auto's Exhaust brake doesn't work below 22mph.

 

[cerberusiam]

Thanks guys, I'm starting to feel a little better about the temps I'm seeing. This is the first cat. conv. equipped diesel I have owned, do you all feel there is any significant EGT reduction by getting rid of it, and adding a freer flowing muffler?

One other question if you don't mind, I cant seem to get my Jacobs exhaust brake to acutate in first gear with this auto trans. going down some of these steep hills, is it something I'm doing wrong or just the nature of the beast.



Thanks again for all the info, guys. Devlin

A free flowing muffler will help some, as would removing the CAT if one did that but of course we don't do that cuz it's illegal.



A really good addition would be a boost fooler. I am running one from Quad and where I would see 1400 it has barely topped 1200. Truck will now make 40+ lbs of boost and pull much better in the mid to top end.

 

[Elsbury]

Hi Devlin!

I'm a Newb here and don't post much but I too own an 06 auto. I pull a 31' Alfa with mine and when new the temps worried me too but now with 18,000 on her the temps are good. I am at about 600-700 at freeway cruise of 70. It used to be 800+. When towing now I seldom see over 1300. Maybe you just need more breakin time? Mine is an early 06 and I had problems with milage but the latest flash from Dodge has fixed it. Truck sounds different now at idle and runs smooooooth! Shifts nicer too. Oo.

 

[BGlidewell]

Remember EGT stands for EXHAUST gas temperature. NOT combustion gas temperature. Add timing to a third gen and it will lower EGT, but it will RAISE combustion temps. I would be more worried about a Smarty equipped truck at1250 than a stocker running 1400. If it is stock you will not hurt it by using as it was designed.

I'm having a hard time understanding how a combustion chamber can have increased heat without that increased heat represented a few inches downstream in the exhaust manifold. What am I missing here?

 

[Deerezilla]

So only a smarty does this? Does the edge box or the tts do the same thing?



New to the CTD mod game just trying to figure out where to start

 

[mberry]

I'm with BGlidewell on that point also. someone is going to have to explain that to me in layman's terms.



Deerezilla, Any box that advances timing will decrease the EGT to some extent but I think it depends on how much the timing is manipulated. I have the TST, and it lowered the EGT's by almost 150 degrees on hard pulls. As for where to begin your mods, start with air, then drivetrain (i. e. clutch), then fueling. That's just my opinion and free advice is worth what you paid for it. Good luck.



Mark.

 

[cerberusiam]

I'm having a hard time understanding how a combustion chamber can have increased heat without that increased heat represented a few inches downstream in the exhaust manifold. What am I missing here?

Your forgetting the critical part, timing. The more timing advance there is the longer the combustion stays in the chamber the more heat is pulled by the cooling system before it is dumped into the exhaust manifold. Add to that the combustion event is on the back side now instead around the peak heat and you see cooler EGT's but higher cyclinder pressures overall.

 

[BGlidewell]

Your forgetting the critical part, timing. The more timing advance there is the longer the combustion stays in the chamber the more heat is pulled by the cooling system before it is dumped into the exhaust manifold. Add to that the combustion event is on the back side now instead around the peak heat and you see cooler EGT's but higher cyclinder pressures overall.

I don't think I'm forgetting anything. The whole point of the statement I questioned was related to advanced timing. I'm not understanding, thats for SURE. Heat goes somewhere.

It sounds like you are saying added heat goes into the cooling system before it goes into the exhaust manifold during advance timing so the EGT is lower? Or are we confusing heat with pressure or are they the same... ?

 

[cclark746]

a 5in free flowing muffler and no cat and my egt's maybe changed 25 degees just food for thought

 

[Deerezilla]

I'm with BGlidewell on that point also. someone is going to have to explain that to me in layman's terms.



Deerezilla, Any box that advances timing will decrease the EGT to some extent but I think it depends on how much the timing is manipulated. I have the TST, and it lowered the EGT's by almost 150 degrees on hard pulls. As for where to begin your mods, start with air, then drivetrain (i. e. clutch), then fueling. That's just my opinion and free advice is worth what you paid for it. Good luck.



Mark.

I have a mbrp with a test pipe I have a afe stage 2 proguard 7 on it all ready I'm going to get a scb from peter and a fass system. the way you guys are talking you can even all 80hp with out a clutch or fuel system?

 

[Prairie Dog]

Your forgetting the critical part, timing. The more timing advance there is the longer the combustion stays in the chamber the more heat is pulled by the cooling system before it is dumped into the exhaust manifold. Add to that the combustion event is on the back side now instead around the peak heat and you see cooler EGT's but higher cyclinder pressures overall.

I'm confused too, why would it stay in the chamber longer? Everything is still moving at the same speed isn't it?

 

[cerberusiam]

I don't think I'm forgetting anything. The whole point of the statement I questioned was related to advanced timing. I'm not understanding, thats for SURE. Heat goes somewhere.



It sounds like you are saying added heat goes into the cooling system before it goes into the exhaust manifold during advance timing so the EGT is lower? Or are we confusing heat with pressure or are they the same... ?

Here is your original question that I as addressing:



Originally Posted by BGlidewell

I'm having a hard time understanding how a combustion chamber can have increased heat without that increased heat represented a few inches downstream in the exhaust manifold. What am I missing here?





The stock injection timing is retarded for emissions reasons. This means it is injecting a lot closer to TDC and the combustion event has not totally completed or just completed by the time the exhaust valve opens. This keeps the exhaust stream hotter to make the CAT work and with the drive pressures these trucks run it provides an in-cylinder EGR effect.



If you advance injection timing the peak temps will be reached sooner and have the cooling system pulling the heat out of the cylinder longer than it would if the injection happens later. This promotes more complete combustion which leads to higher peak pressures but cooler exhaust stream bby the time it hits a probe in the manifold.



The one thing to keep in mind with advanced timing is it holds the heat in the cylinder longer and that tends to heat soak all the components faster. Given enough fuel and enough load that can lead to melting pistns even though you may not see really high EGT's for a long period of time.

 

[Devlin]

I really appreciate all the replies everyone. To fill you in, I installed a free flow exhaust today, and was going to pick up an Edge EZ tomorrow. Does this box have boost fooling, since it doesn't appear that you can use a boost elbow like I used in the past. Should I be looking for a different brand of box maybe? I don't really need a huge HP/Torque gain box, as all this truck ever does is pull fairly heavy loads, so I assume I wouldn't be able to use higher power levels anyway. I guess I'm hoping all this with the AFE intake will help temps.

 

[BGlidewell]

Here is your original question that I as addressing:



Originally Posted by BGlidewell

I'm having a hard time understanding how a combustion chamber can have increased heat without that increased heat represented a few inches downstream in the exhaust manifold. What am I missing here?





The stock injection timing is retarded for emissions reasons. This means it is injecting a lot closer to TDC and the combustion event has not totally completed or just completed by the time the exhaust valve opens. This keeps the exhaust stream hotter to make the CAT work and with the drive pressures these trucks run it provides an in-cylinder EGR effect.



If you advance injection timing the peak temps will be reached sooner and have the cooling system pulling the heat out of the cylinder longer than it would if the injection happens later. This promotes more complete combustion which leads to higher peak pressures but cooler exhaust stream bby the time it hits a probe in the manifold.



The one thing to keep in mind with advanced timing is it holds the heat in the cylinder longer and that tends to heat soak all the components faster. Given enough fuel and enough load that can lead to melting pistns even though you may not see really high EGT's for a long period of time.

OK, something is still not making sense to me. According to the first law of thermodynamics, heat (energy) can not be made to disappear. So, where is this heat going? If it is going into the "cooling system", wouldn't I expect to see higher readings at the temperature gauge? I am not. Maybe my temperature gauge is not scaled enough to see these increases or it is broken, or the heat is going somewhere that can not or is not being metered...