High output vs Standard output question.

[rlittle]

I am trying to buy an 03 now and am running into a big problem getting an HO engine. The dealers here in Phoenix are selling 03 HO trucks like there is no tomarrow (thanks to the gas pipeline problem Phoenix had) but they seem to have a lot of the standard output trucks in stock and are giving lots of discounts on them.

One dealer told me that the difference between the trucks is just the chip and you can buy an HO chip from them for about $2000 and upgrade the truck to the HO plus level. They say the Dodge will not void the warrentee.

I suspect that there is more to this than just a chip, any of you have any information on the differences between the two engines. If it is a chip I bet Bully Dog or one of the other after market guys has something cheaper than the $2000 Dodge wants.

Comments

Rollie

 

[PGoble]

They are feeding you a line. There are internal differences between the HO & SO. I am not sure which TDR magazine it was in, I think 1st quarter 2003, it expains the internal differences, even has a cutaway of an HO engine. I know the pistons are different, and the HO has a special oil cooling system for the pistons, exclusive to the HO (J-jets or something I believe). I am sure someone on this site can explain in more detail. Hope that helps.

Pete

 

[lmills]

Yeah they are feeding you BS. Obviously they are either liars at that dealer or have no knowledge of what they sell. I would consider a different one, or at least a different sales man.

 

[SRadke]

The HO's have oil squirters that squirt the bottom of the pistons and have small ports in the pistons for this oil to flow through. It allows better cooling for the pistons. Other than that the diffrence is in the programming. If it will get you a good discount on the price of the truck I'm sure Bullydog or one of the other vendors can get you a few more horsepower for a lot less than $2000.

-Scott

 

[JSoden]

Plus bigger Differential!!!!!!!

 

[lmills]

I can't speak for the newer 3rd generation, but the older 2nd had numerous differences between the two. The injection pump was different, the injectors were different and the compression ratio was higher on the HO. These are just a few thing different between the two. There are other things. I know some of the differences may no longer be since they switched to the HPCR injection.

 

[DPKetchum]

Flywheel weight is different also. H. O. is heavier

 

[DLoughery]

Originally posted by rlittle

I suspect that there is more to this than just a chip, any of you have any information on the differences between the two engines.

Rollie

This is from Cummins website FAQ section:



What is the difference in the HO engine versus the Standard Output engine?





What did we do to make the HO engine 305 horsepower and 555 lb-ft torque? First we beefed up components such as the pistons to handle this power level. We use gallery-cooled pistons which receive an oil spray to for cooler temperature and longer life. Then we modified software to create the greater horsepower and torque, while staying within all engine and driveline parameters.





The link is:

http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/....cfm?uuid=00036766-DA2C-1E30-8DDB80C4A8F00000



Hope this helps.

 

[ttreibel]

I tow 7K with my Standard Output and love it. I can climb over the passes here in Washington State in forth gear at 65MPH that fast enough for me. I will save the $$$ for what I like doing best camping.



I have the 5-speed and it has the larger rear end. The SO automatics I am not sure about. Remeber the SO has as much power as some of the 2nd Gens HO's DC keeps upping the bar.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Originally posted by SRadke

The HO's have oil squirters that squirt the bottom of the pistons and have small ports in the pistons for this oil to flow through. It allows better cooling for the pistons. . . .

-Scott

It may seem SRadke is implying there isn't any oil cooling for the pistons on the SOs, but the SOs do have such a feature. The difference with the HO and the SO is there is an oil gallery in the crown of the piston for additional cooling beyond what is found on the SO.



The 2003+ SO engines have the same piston cooling as the 2002 and older HOs.



Hope this is clear now



Vaughn

 

[SRadke]

Thanks Vaughn! I stand corrected, or rather clarified.

 

[PGoble]

To clarify the issue, a few quotes from page 38 of TDR issue # 40.



"Standard-Output engines continue to use saddle jets located in the upper main bearing saddles to spray the connecting rods and the pistons. HO engines use a new system that includes a component called a "J-jet" for each piston. The J-jet is bolted to the block and directs a stream of oil to the underside of the piston. HO pistons have a passageway to direct the flow of oil through the piston head to cool it. HO engines also have an exhaust manifold that is capable of higher exhaust temperatures. "



"The turbo on all versions of the engine is an HY35 with a 9cm2 exhaust housing. This turbo has been redesigned from previous HY35's. "



"Specifications for turbocharger boost are numbers that TDR members carefully watch..... The wide open throttle boost specifications: SO engine, 22-24 psi; HO engine, 25-26 psi. "



Additionally, there is a programming difference between the SO and HO. Hope this helps clear things up.



Peter

 

[dPierce]

Trans and Differential differences

Don't forget that most S. O. s come with a 47RE and the 10. 5" rear-end. If you want an H. O. , buy one. It would cost a fortune to truly turn an S. O. into an H. O. Plus, if you plan to bomb the truck, the H. O. has a more stout platform to start from.

 

[PCline]

My SO 47RE has an 11. 5 inch rear-end, as I'm sure they all do.

 

[dPierce]

PCline

Originally posted by PCline

My SO 47RE has an 11. 5 inch rear-end, as I'm sure they all do.

You probably have it because yours is a 3500, I'm pretty sure that 2500 S. O. s come with the 10. 5?

 

[CATCRACKER]

i have an HO and can only hit 21 1/2 lbs of boost not 25-26 whats up with that?

 

[Swayse]

Re: PCline

Originally posted by dPierce

You probably have it because yours is a 3500, I'm pretty sure that 2500 S. O. s come with the 10. 5?

The lowly SO 5 speed 2500 has the 11. 5.

 

[JEvers]

My 03 SO Laramie 4x4 has a 10. 5.



#ad

 

[Tomeygun]

my understanding is that the only ones with the 10. 5 axleis the 2500 SO's with the 47RE



although I am sure not even DC can give a for-sure answer to every truck...



I have seen with my own eyes a 2500 SO/47re with the 11. 5



I do know that the HO and 3500 options always have the 11. 5

 

[djbobo]

Sounds like to me that if you decide to go for the SO just make sure you get the 11. 5" rear & the 48re (if going with the auto) and you'll be good to go by having the drive train capable of handling the adjustable Bully dog box on level 2, which will give you as much or more power to the ground than a stock HO would.

As for the piston issue- I haven't heard of any problems with the 2nd gen. trucks pistons with power mods well above the current HOs

This is great news for us SO owners knowing that the main things that use to be needed in upgrading are the same now as opposed to the earlier HO to SO comparisions

i. e. -

turbos

injectors



My experience with these amazing diesels is you simply put in the power you need.

For example my 98' is bone stock as it is mainly used for daily driveing and works fine for that.

On the other hand -While 555 lbs of torque sounds good it would NOT be enough to make me feel comfortable with what and where I pull with my 97' deully, therfore ,it was simply modified to over 660 lbs of torque---just right for what I ask out of it.

My point being is even though my 97' started life as a 215hp/460lbs ( near that of the current SO output ) It was easily modified to what I needed. The same holds true for for the new truck - Well the same only easier!!!!!