Hole in rubber roof.

[ACoyle]

Found out last fall that I have a hole in my rubber roof. I have the trailer under cover for the winter. I am wondering what I do to fix the hold. Evidently it leaked for a while and I may have to remove some of the fiberglass on the side to replace some plywood under that. Anyone evr had to deal with anything like this?



Thank You



AC

 

[RustyJC]

The hole is the easy part - EPDM patch kits are available at Camping World or most RV dealers/parts stores. If you have water incursion into a wall system where the fiberglass is bonded to the luan, all I can say (with all seriousness) is may God have mercy on your soul! :{



Rusty

 

[Sojourner]

Found out last fall that I have a hole in my rubber roof. I have the trailer under cover for the winter. I am wondering what I do to fix the hold. Evidently it leaked for a while and I may have to remove some of the fiberglass on the side to replace some plywood under that. Anyone evr had to deal with anything like this?



Thank You



AC

Contrary to what the 'manufacturers' (and I use that term loosely) and sellers of those 'RV rubber roof repair kits' present, there is *no* 'ez' fix for white EPDM (ethylyene proplylene diene monomer) rubber roofs that works 'long term' ('cept one and I'll get to that). The problem with the white rubber roofs is that they oxidize rapidly and at an accelerated rate - you can see the evidence of this in the chalking on the surface when you rub your hand across it (if the roof is older than a couple of years old and doesn't show chalking then it is most likely a thermoplastic olefin aka 'TPO' roof and won't ever chalk). The gray streaks you get down the side of the coach after a rain are primarily a result of the oxidized white rubber powder washing off the top.



The oxidized rubber acts as a bond breaker to anything you attempt to adhere to the surface, including fresh white EPDM and the specified adhesive for the application. I've been a professional commercial roofing contractor with over 20 years of experience with EPDM rubber systems and I find white EPDM rubber repairs, especially on RVs, to be such a PITA to work on I don't even attempt to use conventional, specified materials and techniques to repair same. I've learned to adapt to the circumstances after much trial and error.



Here's what I suggest - it sounds like you don't want to bother with re-roofing the coach, but at the same time you can't be dinking around with some halfast repair that will lead you to believe that there is no longer a leak when in fact there is a reduced leak that is slowly rotting your coach. You can forget about trying to successfully repair a white EPDM roof with more of the same. I am unable to confidently do it with all my years of experience with EPDM and I have done inverted roof assemblies (essentially tubs) with single ply black EPDM that never leak. There is a material that I've always viewed as inferior because of it's nature and it veers well outside manufacturer's specifications for single ply roofing material, but it works extremely well for a 'quick and dirty' application, if one is very careful and deliberate in application. The downside is that once this material is used, you're married to it and there is no working with it (other than piling on more), a larger area around the application must be cut out creating yet a bigger problem. The fact is, I can't stand this particular material, but I have successfully used it on difficult RV repairs at the perimeter. It sounds like the hole on your coach is on the perimeter. There are a couple of approaches to this depending upon the size of the hole. Email me a photo or two of the hole in your roof and I will help you determine the best way to go about taking care of this problem. My email is generalcummins(at)yahoo.com



BTW, Rusty is correct - if you have sidewall damage in a laminated fiberglass sidewall then that is a huge problem and you should not attempt to take the wall apart. Usually the fix for delamination in a laminated sidewall is to take it back to the manufacturer and have them replace the entire sidewall costing several thousands of $, however there is someone who has posted on the RV.net forums who has had success fixing these type delaminations without disassembly of the wall. If you have that problem I suggest you check out that forum. To check for delamination, rap your knuckles on the sidewall checking for delamination (especially around windows and compartment doors, as well as at the roofline) - I have found several delaminations that way.

 

[DaveK98]

Not to hijack this thread but Sojourner, do you recommend cleaning the "chalk" off and putting on some kind of protectant?

 

[TowPro]

I have had good luck with the stuff that comes in the tube made for rubber roofs. Get it at the RV dealer. Its the same stuff they use to seal the sides and around openings when they build the coach.

 

[Sojourner]

Not to hijack this thread but Sojourner, do you recommend cleaning the "chalk" off and putting on some kind of protectant?

Yeah, that 'protectant' stuff made for the white rubber RV roofs actually does do *some* good if you clean the surface well before application, but in order for you to reap any real benefit over the long haul you would need to apply it every month or so (meaning re-wash the entire roof thoroughly and re-apply the protectant), depending upon what part of the country you live in and the intensity of the solar radiation. This may not be economically viable for some folks. The protectant stuff breaks down pretty fast in the sunlight, really. The best thing you can do is to keep the sunlight off the white rubber under cover somehow.

 

[Sojourner]

I have had good luck with the stuff that comes in the tube made for rubber roofs. Get it at the RV dealer. Its the same stuff they use to seal the sides and around openings when they build the coach.

That pookey in a tube will work okay on small holes and around penetrations, provided there is adequate surface preparation. However when it comes to the stress points on the perimeter that have been damaged (e. g. like when a tree limb scraps the edge and creates a long tear) using the pookey in a tube would be a hit or miss proposition, IMO.



In such instances that the pookey in a tube would suffice I prefer a ureathane such as Vulkem 116 which is carried by many waterproofing supply houses. I like using materials where I know the track record.



The reason that pookey in a tube for RV roofs exists in the first place is because the way RV rooftops are constructed. There is no provision for the proper flashing of penetrations on RV rooftops in accordance with sound roofing practices, so the two companies that furnish the single ply roofing materials to the RV industry had to come up with a passable means of sealing the penetrations - thus the sealant they use in manufacturing which is the same thing you get in a tube at the RV shop. You don't see Firestone Building Products or Carlisle selling their single ply materials (EPDM or TPO) directly to the RV manufacturers, or even attaching their names to the materials that get applied to RVs. Indeed, Firestone and Carlisle sell to the middlemen who turn around sell the Firestone and Carlisle roll goods to the RV industry under private labels 'cause Firestone and Carlisle don't want their names associated with the nonsense that passes for 'roofs' in the RV industry.



In the commercial roofing trade it would be considered substandard work to apply pookey in a tube to a flashing detail or a minor hole in a single ply roof (except as a temporary emergency repair), however it is considered absolutely sufficient in the RV biz.

 

[ACoyle]

Thank You all for th input. Sojurner, I will not probably see the coach for a month or so. I have land in upstate NYS and won't be going there for a while. My wife noted the holes when she wa up there putting on the cover. I will get pix asap.



Bummed about the sied. Didn't think the fiberglass was glued to the plywood. Gotta think about that.



AC

 

[Sojourner]

The reason the delamination occurs so rapidly and with very little moisture is becasue the process utilizes a water based adhesive which isn't as resistant to moisture as a solvent based adhesive. These laminated RV sidewalls are constructed in an indoor environment and they can't use the solvent based materials for obvious reasons.

 

[SHobbs]

I have seen where some manufacturers are using fiberglass roofs. I usually clean my roof every month and put a protectant on it. I can't stand the blackstreaks and do want any leaks. Before I clean it I look it over real good for any signs of holes or tears. I also found out that you do not want to use cleaners with any kind of harsh chemicals in them. I use mine fulltime so keeping it outta the sun is a little hard, lol. Now cleaning the entire 5er is another story, I have a guy that cleans that part every 6 months.



From what I have seen as far as the sidewalls the fiberglass is not very thick, kinda like putting formica on countertops. I placed a support bracket at the center of my awning for when it's rolled up and for travel to help with sagging. The fiberglass part looked about an 1/8in. maybe 1/16in. thick or so and under that was the wood part.

 

[GLASMITHS]

This thread reinforces my spending extra to have a fiberglass roof from Newmar.

 

[Buffalo]

I read, with interest, what Sojourner had to say about the difficulty protecting & patching EPDM roofing systems. I'm, also, curious about what his opinion of the system I've tried, is.



In January, '01, at the Quartzite, AZ. RV Show, I ran across a product designed to protect & patch EPDM & other roofing materials. It's called Rapid Roof III. It's an Acrylic Elastomeric Roof Coating. It looks like white glue (Elmer's) & applys with a paint brush or roller. For areas needing extra strength, they have a thin, very strong & easily pliable, polyester meshwork called "Spunflex". Rapid Roof III is made by Conklin Co. in Shakopee, MN.



At Quartzite, the company explaining & selling this product is Minnesota Roofing & RV Specialties. They have been in business since 1988 and after trying numerous products, found Rapid Roof III to work the best.



Basically, you scrub the roof with detergent & a 3M scrubbing pad to get the "chalking" off & rinse well & dry. Then, you start painting The RR III on . In areas that need extra strength, You put a coat of RRIII on in small areas & while the RRIII is still wet, you lay the Spunflex on top of the wet coat of RRIII. You 'pat' the Spunflex into the RR III & then apply another coat. The product dries to the consistency of rubber, in a few hours. Spunflex does to RR III what rebar does to concrete.





If you had a tear in the EPDM that has a "flap", you can paint underneath the flap, lay the flap into the wet RR III then paint over the flap, lay the Spunflex into the wet RR III, pat it down into the RR III & apply a second coat to the wet first coat. Let it dry & you should have a tough patch.



My trailer sits outside in the desert sun (Phoenix, AZ. ), year around & my roof still looks great. If you stick your fingernail into the RR III, it's still pliable & rubbery. No sign of drying or brittleness, at all. It's supposed to last 10 years, or more. The local distributor for RR III has had it on a cube van for many years, now, & when I looked at his roof, it was still rubbery & pliable.



I used to worry about leaks, quite a bit, since I had to replace parts of the the wooden framework on an older trailer, twice. It was expensive & a pain in the neck. Since I installed the RR III, I don't worry, anymore.



This stuff is pliable enough that I even put it on my vinyl awning cover. It was just beginning to start to deteriorate from the sunlight. I painted about 12-14" or the outer roll that is always exposed to the elements. It's flexable enough to do this & still looks good. Should extend the life of the awning by quite a bit.



I know this is sounding more like an "infommercial" but, this stuff is working GREAT for, both me & a couple of my friends. Remember, we live in Phoenix. About as harsh of a climate as an EPDM roof can experience.



If anyone is interested, Minnesota Roofing & RV Spec. has a website (www.rvroofmn.com).



I know if I had a tear or hole in my rubber roof, RR III & Spunflex is what I'd use to repair it.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[Schlickenmeyer]

Your link includes a ")". . you should check that.



Thanx, I will check these guys out. I have an rv, and live in MN. .

 

[RustyJC]

Not to debate this issue (my current 5th wheel doesn't even have an EPDM roof), but here is what the primary supplier of EPDM membrane systems to the RV industry has to say. Scroll down to their EPDM patch kits. I lost an air conditioner shroud on a previous 5th wheel which holed its EPDM roof. I used the patch kit shown and had no further problems.



Dicor



Rusty

 

[litespeed]

Rusty is correct.....



Dicor is the answer to your problem unless you have a gaping hole and lots of water damage. The Dicor works great. It is a self leveling caulk similar to 5200 for the boating world. I have helped several people in our park and others apply and use this stuff with good results. It works. But like anything else... ... You have to prep the surface. You need to use a wash of sorts to prep the surface to make it stick. I think it was a light acid wash. It is available at Home Depot. You just wash the area around the hole, dry and apply the caulk. Good stuff. Contact a good reputable RV dealer and they can point you in the right direction. If you can't find one PM me and I can call my local RV dealer and send you instructions and show you a picture of a recent patch I helped with.



Any reputable RV dealer should carry the stuff. It will get you by until you can switch to vinyl or fiberglass.



Brand loyalty has nothing to do with fiberglass roofs, since all major manufacturers have had fiberglass roofs since the early 90's. For some manufacturers it was an option, for others it was'nt. Fiberglass is not a new thing for RV roof's regardless of what others say here.



As long as you dont have too much "black" showing through your roof (rubber roof wearing out). You can caulk your hole and be fine. But... ... You will always have to maintain it as others have said. Check it occasionally and re-apply. I have seen the stuff make it 3 years without re-application (in Florida, lots of UV and rain, salt, etc... ).



In the end you will eventually have to replace the roof membrane and fix the damage caused by the leaks (the ones you did not see)... ..... But that is a different thread.....



Here is a picture of the stuff. I had an extra tube laying around... .



AJ

 

[Radshooter]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned EternaBond tape yet? I re-did all the seams on our roof earlier this winter, and have not noticed any new leaks anywhere. Very pleased with it. Pricey, but worth it in my opinion. It seems to cover up all the "micro-cracks" that I tried for years to cover with the caulks. So far, so good.

Steve

 

[MMeilicke]

I have used a product called, don't count on the spelling, Eternalbond which you can get from Camping World. This will cover up the whole with a patch yhat will not leak nor come off. If I have a hole, that is what I will use. It is expensive but it works.

Mick