Holley pump

[csutton7]

got the Holley(HLY12-815)lift pump installed last night & only broke one aeorquip fitting off in the VP44--stupid move on my part trying to get it done fast, but I had an extra & a buddy had an EZ out(came right out)--I did it from the top by removing the filter canister--had to fab a new bracket("L" bracket about 3. 5" long out of a Simpson stair tread angle) that bolted onto the original mount(had to drill one hole for the Holley bracket to fit) and wrestle with bolts(not much room for two arms bolts & wrenches-but I won in the end)--one of the hardest things was to connect the new line to the tank line-I ended up drilling the new line out about a 1/16" bigger to get it to sliip over---she started up after 4 ignition ons and 2 short crank sessions--psi holding steady a 11, but need to test drive her which will be when the wife gets back from the airport---I changed the pump out cuz I was getting 2 psi at WOT & then it would build up to 5-7 psi and bounce down to 2-3 psi--if I held steady on the pedal 8-11 psi with red warning light flashing about every minute or so---chris

------------------
chris sutton
1999 2500 24v qcab longbed 4x4 red sport w/ all the options 'cept plow pkg, 4:10 detroit locker in rear & front ARB,
5" skyjacker lift w/ 35" BFG MT's on 16. 5x9. 75 Weld rims, black smittybilt step bars, black 3 pc. bug persuader,
black lumber rack, camel leather int. w/ mb quartz spkrs and JL Audio twin 10"sub stealth box under rear seat , PE EZ, DTT vb & tc, mag hy-tec transmission pan,
red magview diff covers front & back, SPA pyro/boost&fuel pres/oil temp on "A" pillar & coming soon: big injectors, HX 40 massaged, red L&L ladder bars, turbo temp monitor ,
4" Jardine exhaust, Holley fuel pump, upgraded fuel lines and PE box tweaked--the above is a big fat lie I really own a totally stock RAM

 

[Whitmore]

csutton7,when you get the results in let us know your psi at wot and how everything works out,thanks Kevin #ad


------------------
2001 eth dee,qc,lwb,3. 55,camper and tow pkg,driftwood,cummins e-brake,jardine 4" exhaust,dz alum checker run boards,bed rail,tailgate protector,better built alum checker toolbox with home made fuel tank under box,"CUMN" licence plates and captain vol fire dept plate too

 

[csutton7]

OK-got a little test drive in--OEM pump & stock fuel lines fluctuated from a high of 14psi(idling) to a low of 2psi w/a WOT and would run between 7-11 with the red light flashing every minute or so letting me know that the pressure had dropped below 5psi(SPA guages) just cruising
Enter the HOLLEY--idles @ 10-11 psi low of 6psi @ WOT and runs between 9-11 psi just cruising---this includes upgraded lines--chris

 

[Whitmore]

just a thought,I bet it was the line upgrade that helped you out,but still you got rid of the bogus oem lift pump,I like your results Kevin

------------------
2001 eth dee,qc,lwb,3. 55,camper and tow pkg,driftwood,cummins e-brake,jardine 4" exhaust,dz alum checker run boards,bed rail,tailgate protector,better built alum checker toolbox with home made fuel tank under box,"CUMN" licence plates and captain vol fire dept plate too

 

[ynot]

I took the 815 and mounted on the frame in front of the trans. crossmember without changing any lines and using the power feed to the Carter. Runs 23psi at idle and drops to 14. 5psi at 50psi boost. $138 and $4. 50 for brass. Took about 1/2 hour but sure got soaked with fuel #ad
... T

 

[csutton7]

ynott----my pressure guage is off the top of the filter(99 model)--could going thru the filter(new) cause that much pressure difference?? ynott 23 psi @ idle & me @ 11 psi(12 psi diff) and @ WOT ynott @ 14. 5 & me @ 6(8. 5psi diff) ynott @ 50lbs of boost & me @ 24 lbs of boost @WOT---seems like a big diff @ idle and WOT--would the boost have an affect on the fuel pressure??
Is my new pump a POS & is there a way to adjust them-I couldn't see a way to adjust or is it the filter causes that much drop in pressure? I also thought these things were set to 14psi at the factory am I wrong? If they are set to 14 then a 3psi drop by going thru the filter isn't too bad, is it? But if they are set to something different, like 23 psi, then a 12 psi drop thru the filter seems huge thus making me wonder if I got a FFUP(factory f*&$^ed up pump)--what gives--any info would be much appreciated. thanks--oh yea I don't get more than a 2psi fluctuation now unless WOT where as before I'd get at least a 7+psi fluctuation--so that part is good--- chris

 

[Chad Sheets]

Ynott, I got a ton of emails from people saying not to run my BG220 unregulated (well over 25psi) when I was hooking it up because it will screw the injection pump up. I know it (injection pump) has a 14psi bypass valve to vent excess pressure off, but I was told its not good to run it that high. I dont know why (well I kind of have a theory on it, but dont know how to logicaly explain it) If you do a search on "mallory 4150" you might see where people were talking about this if its still available.

------------------
Always ready to help!
2000 2500 Red Sport quad cab, 4x4, K&N, DDI's, straight piped, boost, pyro and fuel pressure gages, Hot Power Edge, EZ box, race transmission, Barry Grant fuel system, mean looking set of 33. 5" tires, Snap On diamond tool box, Marine Corps window sticker, Semper Fi!

1972 340 Cuda'. Original tripple Black, 340 car w/air. Good clean car, super stock springs, Weld Prostars, shaker hood, strong 340 with a 727/4000 stahl, 4. 56... . Bombs away!
NRA Life Member
My Diesel Page

 

[csutton7]

just returned from a 30 minute test drive and I'm PI$$ED--pump hit a low of 4 psi with overdrive off and now with overdrive on it fluctuates between 5-9 and the red light flashes a lot--I don't think the Holley is the answer if this is the norm--maybe I really did get a POS pump from the Holley factory--any clues--Mallory, BG or ???? maybe that marine super pump or the gorman rupp is what we need!!! i'm gettin' a big beer right now---chris

 

[Morphious]

I just installed a new mallory 4140M pump tonight. I located it right next to the tank above the transfer case skid plate. Without a regulator, I am getting 11-12 psi at idle and 9-10 psi at wide open throttle. It seems able to keep up with my truck fuelling requirements just fine.

Morph.

#ad


------------------
'99 2500 4x4 QC Std transmission, Purple (usually Mud Red), 10 Disc Changer, 285x75Rx16 BFG Mudders, Amr. Racing Baja Wheels, Gooseneck hitch, 275lb King Klaw front bumper, Towing/Camper packages. DDIII's, Exhaust, TTPM, Boost Module. Fuel Pressure, EGT adn Boost Guages. Mallory Fuel Pump. (fastest farm truck around). And can't forget the hydraulic PigSticker.

1965 Chevy 1/2 ton Pickup, 350-350hp/2spd powerglide, PS, PB, Disc Brakes on the front, Tilt, Fuel Cell, 3. 73 posi.

26ft Gooseneck Flatbed Trailer, 2 horse bumper pull, Round bale Trailer.

1960 Farmal 340 Diesel Tractor.

[This message has been edited by Morphious (edited 03-11-2001). ]

 

[Arcticat]

Csutton, maybe you did get a bad pump. I know that sportbike is using the 815 currently without any problems, hopefully he will chime in with some thoughts on the problem. Did you wire it off the factory pump wiring? I know that the voltage in the stock harness varies somewhat, I would try running a new circuit off the battery triggered by a relay hooked to any circuit in the truck that's a start-run.

I would seem to me that ynott's pressure is so high because he is pushing 140gph through those little banjo fittings. It's like if you hook a garden hose to a faucet and put your hand on the hose, then stand on the hose a few feet downstream of your hand. Pressure goes up as the restriction increases. Take your foot off the hose, the hose relaxes as pressure goes down. I could be wrong, does this make sense to everyone else?

 

[csutton7]

Articat-the pressure thing makes sense to me & I did wire it off the OEM wiring--- I did a search-finally it would let me with out shutting down the site--& I found where HVAC mentioned he had what he thought was an electrical problem w/the Holley so I might try to wire it up to a better source--HVAC is in Vegas this weekend so when he gets back maybe he can shed some light--I hope it's not a POS pump--if it is I may go with the Mallory or BG pump--chris

[This message has been edited by csutton7 (edited 03-11-2001). ]

 

[ynot]

Chris, I "supercharged" my fuel system by leaving everything stock and using a "booster pump" to fead the OEM Carter. That's where the extra psi came from. Truck runs great at current pressure, and you get a slightly higher advance curve with the extra pressure. Won't change anything on it unless something pukes... T

 

[csutton7]

ynott--do you think my Holley pump is ok or a POS? I saw where HVAC had an electrical problem & am not sure if it was from the factory wiring or from his setup off the battery. 4psi is depressing at WOT to say the least--I gained 2 psi over the stock unit--WOW that was a great improvement---need to hear from HVAC & get his take--chris

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Yeah HVAC's puked running off the OEM power feed from the ECM (or is it the PCM??). When I talked to him last (a while ago) he had it temporarily rigged with a switch to turn the lift pump on/off. It sounds like the power for the lift pump is routed thru the PCM, instead of the PCM controlling a relay that switches power straight from the battery. I plan to use a relay when I install a Mallory pump in the near future.

HVAC commented there was some wear on his Holley unit when he took it apart and feels the Mallory with its gerator design is more suited for long-term durability.

Vaughn

[This message has been edited by Vaughn MacKenzie (edited 03-11-2001). ]

 

[csutton7]

thanks Vaughn--I thought that's what happened to HVAC--do you know how he wired up the Mallory? off the factory or using the switch that he put in for the Holley? I'm not sure how the whole setup would work--would the wait to start light still function with the added switch for the fuel pump? Maybe a new start/run power source is the way to go as mentioned by Articat(this seems to make a lot of sense-just need to figure out what source)---chris

 

[Arcticat]

Csutton, I'm pretty sure the voltage in the OEM liftpump circuit at startup is 8 or so. I don't know if that is enought to trigger a relay, but if it is than you could wire it up that way . That's how I am going to try wiring mine, that way the pump comes on the same as the stocker. You'll notice the stocker turns off after a few seconds if you haven't started the engine yet. This happens if the grid heaters need to cycle for awhile to get the intake temperature up. Sometimes when it's real cold my grid heater cycles for thirty seconds. If you wired the pump to a relay off a start-run circuit, you might also want to put a switch on it in the cab so you could turn the pump off while you were waiting for the grid heater. I doubt you would want the new pump just running for thirty seconds with the engine off. That's why I am going to try a relay off the stock pump wiring, if it works that way the new pump will act like stock.

 

[csutton7]

since I'm no wiring genius-more knucklehead--why wouldn't the new pump shut down the same way as the stock unit--same wires, same power source & same programming???? I don't understand? And why would the wiring cause the pump to go tits up? I can understand if the current is being changed all the time by the computer that that my not be good for a pump, so what would the relay & switch do other than you could get constant current source which is better for the pump? Can anyone explain how you'd wire it up? I know you'd take the power source from the OEM pump to the relay and have another constant source come to another side of the relay and there's a ground to be dealt with and out of the relay to the new pump, but I wouldn't be able to know which terminal on the relay did what unless it came with a diagram---or am I all confused? HELP---chris

 

[csutton7]

this is from the service manual--The 12 volt elctric vane-type ppump is operated & controlled by the ECM. The ECM is bolted to the left side of the engine block behind the fuel filter.
The purpose of the fuel transfer pump is to supply(transfer) a low pressure fuel source: from the fuel tank, through the fuel filter/water separator and to the fuel injection pump. Here the low pressure is raised to a high-pressure by the fuel inj. pump for ooperation of the high-pressure fuel injectors. Check valves within the pump, control direction of fuel flow & prevent bleed back during engine shut down.
Normal current flow to the pump is 12 amps.
With the engine running, the pump has 2 modes of operation: Mode 1: 100% duty-cycle with a minimum pressure of 10 psi except when the eingine is cranking. Mode 2:25 percent duty cylce with minimum pressure of 7 psi with the engine cranking.
The 25% duty cycle is used to limit injection pump inlet pressure until the engine is running.
The transfer pump is self priming: When the key is 1st turned on(w/o cranking the engine), the pump will operate for approximately 2 seconds & then shut off. The pump will also operate for up to 25 seconds after the starter is engaged, & then disengaged & the engine is not running. The pump shuts off immediately if the key is on & the engine stops running.
The fuel volume of the transfer pump will always provide more fuel than the fuel inj. pump requires Excess fuel is returned from the inj. pump through an overflow valve. The valve is located on the side of the inj. ppump. It is also used to connect the fuel return line to the side of the injection pump. This valve opens at approximately 14 psi & returns fuel to the fuel tank through the fuel return line.

Could we be asking to much from an aftermarket pump to provide 25% duty cycle & 100% duty cycle at different times & come on for 2 seconds at one point, 25 seconds at another point & yet full time at another.

Could this be why the Holley is having problems as it can handle all this stuff?
What about the other pumps-may they be susceptible to failure also because the ECM is wanting all this stuff to happen? Seems unlikely unless the OEM pumps have been tweaked in some manner, but maybe they are!! Electrically on is on & off is off so any aftermarket pump should be able to handle this, but can they handle 25% duty cycle & then jump to 100%--maybe not. How can we get around this? I need to go & think a bit!!! Sorry for the long post, but I need help to figure this out & wanted all the info for everyone to see. chris

 

[csutton7]

just waitin' for my wife to start hollerin' to come & help w/ the kids, but I'm surging ahead on this---went to the summitracing site & then the jegs site and found this stuff which may or may not help us out:
BG makes a stepdown power box which allows their pumps to operate at less than full load-$159. 99-will it work on other pumps? Hard to say but maybe. They, along with some other manufacturers, make a 30 amp relay & harness to keep full power to the pump. Maybe this is all we need. Cost is 19. 99.
As for pumps they have a Carter(black) for $79. 99 that looks close to direct replacement for our Cummins. Also there's Paxton, Mallory, Holley & Summit's own pumps out there--so which one is best for us-good question--might take some trial & error unfortunately--but the way I look at it is-could the 30 amp relay & harness take care of our problems-I'm not sure cuz' this provides 100% duty to the pump at all times and our ECM varies that duty depending on start up, no start & run--am I wrong with this thinking? Ok would the step down power box from BG do the trick? Well I think it would as it would step down the power when the ECM says too, if my thinkin' is correct and if one can set up the wiring properly--am I way off base here? Could you use the relay harness & the stepdown box together? Anyone out there who can shed some light on the electrical aspect of all this? I'm gonna make some calls tomorrow if I have the time. chris

[This message has been edited by csutton7 (edited 03-12-2001). ]

 

[Arcticat]

Chris, I think I wasn't quite clear in my last post. What I intend to do is exactly what you laid out in your first reply. Stock pump positive wire will trigger the relay, which will feed the new pump with juice right from the battery. This way the new pump should go on and off like the stock pump, except for this 25% duty cycle. Personally I'm not worried about this 25% duty cycle thing since it is only when the engine is cranking. I have never needed more than three revolutions, at the most a second and a half of cranking on the coldest days, so having the pump run at full blast for that small amount of time isn't going to hurt anything I wouldn't think. What I meant when I mentioned the fluctuting voltage in the stock pump circuit is that I don't know if 8volts is enough to get a relay to kick on. I think it's going to work just fine. If you want to try it this way, get a heavy duty relay from your local autozone or pep boys or whatever. It will come with a diagram that shows which pins on the relay go to what. Also get a fuse holder to go between the battery and the new pump.