Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Home defense/Security, 12 ga., Pump shotguns???

[Buffalo]

Retirement is coming up in a few years & I'm planning a summer-long trip to Alaska with my travel tailer. I, normally, try to stay away from RV Parks & have heard that there are lots of places to stay along the highway, in remote areas.



For self defense, I usually carry a S&W . 357. However, Canada has no sense of humor regarding the transportation of handguns through their country. It's their right. Their country. Their rules!!!



I've read that for fifty bucks, you can get written permission to carry a shotgun through Canada. That would be the answer, I think.



I've heard that the Remington 870 HD is a good weapon with a lot of history. Also, the Mossberg product is supposed to be good & reliable. What about the Winchester?



I've heard more about the 870 than any of the others but, do not know much about any of them. So, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks.



Joe F.

 

[AMink]

IMHO, the 870 is THE pump shotgun. I use one for hunting and it is infallible. I shoot mainly 3" heavy duck and goose loads, so it's had a lot of thumping since I got it in the late 80's. The nice thing about the 870 is there are tons of aftermarket accessories to make it do whatever you want. The Mossbergs and Winchesters are good too, but the 870 is the king of the pump. Good luck and safe traveling.

 

[Pavemen]

the 870 is a great shotgun, but the Mossberg 500 is a good gun and cheaper. however, the aftermarket is good for both but the 870 definitely has more options overall.

the one thing to consider though, is that if you go to a pistol grip setup (with or without a stock) the 870 safety is still easily accessible next to the trigger guard, whereas the Mossberg is a top safety for the thumb and is harder to use with a pistol grip.

All that said, after having sold guns for 3 years, I bought a Mossberg 500 with two barrels, their fancier synthetic stock for $259 new on sale. Then I bought a collapsible AR style stock with pistol grip, stock mounted shell holder, 3 point side mount sling, quick release rear swivel, fixed side mounted sling "swivel", a cleaning kits and "sock" for less then a base model 870.

 

[odinjunior]

For self defense, I usually carry a S&W . 357. However, Canada has no sense of humor regarding the transportation of handguns through their country. It's their right. Their country. Their rules!!!



I've read that for fifty bucks, you can get written permission to carry a shotgun through Canada. That would be the answer, I think.





Thanks.



Joe F. [/QUOTE]



Can you point me to where you read the $50 written permission rule? I would be interested in that also. BTW I have a Mossberg, can't beat the price, just in case some one decides to confiscate it.

 

[Skydiver]

You can't beat a good ole shot gun for indoor defence.

I keep a Remington 1100 semi-auto beside the bed with #4 buck and no plug. Reason, #4 buck has more shot than a "00".

 

[Midnite]

I think you'd want to verify that info about transporting a shotgun through Canada. I know it's possible to legally take long guns into Canada because people do it all the time to go on hunting trips, but if you go this route you absolutely need to talk directly to Canadian Customs to find out exactly what hoops you need to jump through. Waiting until you arrive at the border crossing is too late, and you'll probably land in a heap of trouble.

Also call US Customs to see what they want from you when you cross into Alaska.

Mike

 

[Buffalo]

Midnite,



I have to agree with you. I've tried "googling" the requirements for transporting a shotgun through Canada, to AK, & back to the lower 48. So far, I have not found any "solid" information. Nothing about the costs of transporting the shotgun. One site mentioned that the CA gov't. wants the barrel length to be a bit over 18". I couldn't find anything about shell capacity limits. I'm surprised at the difficulty I'm having trying to find "quality" information about this subject. Seems pretty simple, to me. Just lay out the rules on a particular weapon. There were some vague comments about military-style weapons, also. I wonder if a Home Defense shotgun is considered a combat weapon since the military does use this style of weapon?



One unrelated thing I did learn about Canada is that they have NO sense of humor when it comes to DUI's. This is considered to be a serious offense & they will deny you enterance into their country if you have one. You have to show the Canadian gov't. that you have gone through serious rehabilitation before they will even considering allowing you into their country. I believe there are some serious costs involved, also.



As I find any new information, I will pass it on. So far, not much luck.



Joe F.

 

[Alaskaskiff]

I have moved back and forth from Alaska to the lower 48 numerous times over the last 19 years (Military). I have carried up to 10 long guns through Canada while doing so. If going through Canada with a long arm is going to be a regular occurrence, I recommend getting a Canadian Possession and Acquisition licence for unrestricted (long arms). You have to take a course from an authorized provider and get a background check and of course pay. Then you register your guns with them that you carry through (done on line). I have no concern about registering with Canada, they won't be coming to my house to come and get them I am thinking... . Also, I don't think they like the US enough to violate their own privacy laws to give the US any details about what I own. The other option is to fill out paperwork and pay at the border for a temp permit. I 'think' it is good for a year. Check out this website for everything you need for Canada: Royal Canadian Mounted Police - Canadian Firearms Program | Gendarmerie royale du Canada - Programme canadien des armes à feu

Now for the US. Coming into the US with weapons is much harder than getting into Canada. You MUST have proof that you owned and acquired the weapons in the US or you are going to lose them. CBP in addition to being jerks have zero sense of humor (I work for DHS too). So to make them go away find a customs office and bring your weapons down there (call for specific requirements) and fill out a Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad (Customs Form 4457). They will write a description and serial of your weapons and anything else you may want to add on there (computers, expensive electronics, etc). This is official documentation that the items came from and are returning to the US. They do not keep a copy and it is good forever. I keep all this junk with my passport. The details on the Form 4457 can be found on the DHS. Gov website.

Story time: With all this effort behind me, I crossed into Canada last summer on highway 97 (Washington) bound for Alaska. The now armed Canadian agent was just looking to be a prick and thought he had me on weapons until I produced my paperwork for the weapons. At that point he just nodded and smiled and sent me on my way. Crossing back into the US was way more of a pain and took 3 times as long, even though one of the agents at that crossing is retired military that I have talked to several times over the years.

I hope this helps anyone trying to do this. My process has worked for me and has reduced the stress and unknowns for crossing as no one has any rights whatsoever at a border into another country.

 

[BIGNASTY]

moss 500

Mossberg 500 is the one for me carried one for 19 months in Viet Nam no jams no frills just dependable firepower

 

[The patriot]

Both are pretty good guns.

Run a few boxes through either one to "smooth" em out and you should be GTG.

eric

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

For stateside, I keep a Mossberg 500 Police riot 12 Ga. , short barrel, pistol grip - and often take it along in the RV, since we use a lot of more remote wilderness campsites.



For the occasional traveler crossing Canada, the hassle of entry and return just isn't worth the effort - and I would think even more difficult if the weapon was not clearly a hunting-only type - my police type would never make the cut...

 

[Flying_gage]

Picked up a used, never fired Mossberg 590 from a pawn shop for $300. Pretty hard to beat. Also it is a little beefed up and heavier duty. Works as intended without complaint.

Never owned a 870 but have heard all the above. My buddy owns both and his personal preference is the Mossberg. He can't offer any rational reason for it, just that it is.

Look for what fits you and then let the shopping begin. I wholeheartedly agree with the #4 shot for a self defense load. If in bear country though I might switch out to a slug... .

 

[pullya]

I agree about the Mossberg. Have one by my bed. Also agree about the #4 buck. I disagree about the pistol grip. I'd never have one!!!!! You have to shoot with one to see what is more comfortable for you. Slugs are great for outdoor purposes but have to much penetration for indoor use IMO.

Jay

 

[Flying_gage]

Whoever advocates a pistol grip on a 12 gauge doesn't shoot 3/00... Come on over with your pistol grip equipped shotgun and we will shoot the same loads. I guarantee my shoulder will outlast your wrist.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Whoever advocates a pistol grip on a 12 gauge doesn't shoot 3/00... Come on over with your pistol grip equipped shotgun and we will shoot the same loads. I guarantee my shoulder will outlast your wrist.

I agree on the pistol grip bet, but it's what was on the 500 when I got...



Altho' - couldn't be TOO bad, Arnold Schwarzenegger shoots them at arm's length, single handed all the time... :-laf

 

[pullya]

Anything is possible in Kalifornia:-laf:-laf Maybe thats why some of the residents out there have wrist problems

Jay

 

[SRath]

I agree about avoiding pistol grips on shotguns. Most are cheap plastic and easily broken, not to mention hard to control and have the potential to injure you more than what you are shooting at.

A pistol grip belongs on a pistol. A folding or collapsible stock might be a better idea if you absolutely desire appearance over accuracy.

I'm an 870 guy, and own both 3" and 3 1/2" models. I also like semi-auto 1100 remingtons. that said, my 'home defense' shotgun is an old Winchester 1200. It used to belong to my brother and was scorched in a house fire. I cleaned it up and it functions flawlessly, but since it was now ugly, and not valuable, it didn't bother me to make it uglier with a magazine extension and a hacksaw and a receiver-mounted shellholder, flashlight mount, can of spray paint, etc.

Be aware of what a regular buckshot load can do inside a house! You will end up shooting through walls and maybe hurting someone you did not want to! I would reserve the regular buckshot for close-range bear protection or other outdoor defense. There are more indoor-specific loads available for home protection.

Unless you are clearly a foreigner, U. S. Customs is far worse than Canadian from my experience. If you don't belong here, you will cruise right through.

 

[WalterJ]

Buffalo;



Mossberg 500 military may not be the same as over the counter quality for civilian use. I found the civy Mossbergs suffered quality in the past. Maybe now they are the same reliability & strength as military.



Kudo's to the Rem 870. Had mine (12ga. 870 Express) for 22 years now, shooting trap, bird, waterfoul & deer hunting. I had a loose "slide bar" restaked in the receiver in 1990, and replaced the firing pin for preventive maint. after about 15 years of use. I'm at 15, 000 rounds and counting.



For 'home defense' or outback camping safety (bears, etc. ) I would have the shortest barrel permitted. You'll also have to keep track of yourself as you adjust (reload) for the anticipated danger. Bears (slugs) & bad guys (spreader loads) require different loads, I'm thinkin'.



Safe travels.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Home defense

I like a 44 mag S&M 629 3 inch barrel. Load is 10 grains of Unique a gas check then fill almost to the top of case with #12 shot with another gas check. Just make sure you know where the family is in the house when you touch this off. Goes thru walls,doors (hollow or solid)and really makes a mess out of the intruder.

 

[BHaden]

I like a 44 mag S&M 629 3 inch barrel. Load is 10 grains of Unique a gas check then fill almost to the top of case with #12 shot with another gas check. Just make sure you know where the family is in the house when you touch this off. Goes thru walls,doors (hollow or solid)and really makes a mess out of the intruder.

Dads



I just stumbled on this thread and decided to put in . 02 worth.



The origial post mentioned problems getting through Canada with a pistol

so the S&W might not work. If you want a handgun when you reach Alaska,

there is a way. You can ship a firearm to yourself, legally, to another state.

If you have someone at the other end you trust to ship to you could wait until just before going in to Canada, then drop it off at UPS or fedEx. If you don't have anyone you know many Gun dealers will accept guns and maybe one could hold it until you arrive.





I like Mossbergs for no other reason than that was my first shotgun back in 1968

(20 ga 30" bbl and full choke. It, and my Dads matching 12ga have thousands of rounds through them trap shooting and are utterly reliable. The Maverick brand is nothing but a Mossberg without the shiny finish and wood stock and they are cheap and plentiful