How does DOT know my gear ratio??

[Radshooter]

If I get flagged into a weigh station with my fifth wheel trailer in tow, how do they know my gear ratio to determine my towing capacity? I have the 3. 73 rear end, therefore, my GCVWR is 21,000 lb. Correct? But how do they know that I don''t have the 4. 10 rear with a 23,000 lb rating? With our big trailer, the 2,000 pounds could be the difference between legal and not legal. Do they run the VIN? I can't imagine with as much traffic that they see every day they would have time to check everyone's VIN. Is there a number or letter in the VIN that they would know on the spot? With all the makes and models on the road, this would seem hard to track also. What about the sticker in the glove box? Do they look at that? Do private rigs even have to stop at weigh stations now? When I pulled with my '99 V-10 2500, I never pulled into a weigh station. We travelled through Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and Idaho. Nobody ever said Boo to me about scales. Am I worrying about nothing? Thank you for contributing to my education.



Steve

 

[HBarlow]

Radshooter:



I've pulled my personal travel trailer with my own truck in all 48 contiguous states and have never passed a weigh station that wanted to weigh my rig. In my experience state trucking enforcement officials are only interested in commercial haulers.



I doubt that state weigh stations or state troopers care enough to determine if your truck has the maximum GCWR. The Dodge VIN identifies GVWR, but I don't think it identifies GCWR. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.



Harvey

 

[jcarey]

Maybe from the VIN...

 

[klenger]

The axle ratio is not encoded into the VIN. When commercial trucks are weighed, from what I have been able to determine, they are only interested in how much gross weight the truck and trailer is vs the surface area of the tires. I don't think they care about the ratings of the vehicle, only the weight footprint on the road. I did some math from a NM website, and calculated that my truck would have a gross weight of about 15,000 lbs before it would be over the limits they were looking at.



BTW, I think the GCWR is on the sticker on the driver's door.

 

[MLee]

weight???

The DOT usually states on the approach to the scale NO RVs. If you do pull in they usually flag you on through, unless your doing it commercially, that is another situation.

just my penny's worth.



Marv.

 

[QRTRHRS]

I only know of a blitz years ago on slide in truck campers. I think this was in the VA-WVA area. Usually, "they" don't want you in their way.



Mostly, DOT is looking at your registered weight. If you have a BP or gooseneck flatbed over 10k it usually needs to be registered in combination with the tow rig. The "locals" are more apt to weight these then the state police. Scenario: you pull your truck on the scale only, weigh it, pull ahead to weigh the trailer only, it comes in under 10k because some of that weight is on the truck. DOT stops you and suspects your over on the trailer. They can ask you to uncouple and weigh the trailer. It's gonna cost you.



How are you guys registering your RV's? Do you just register the truck for it's GVW like ~11K and then put a standard plate on the trailer?

 

[GFrance]

If your hauling for hire you need to stop. The weigh master & d. o. t. are only interested in commercial vehicles.

 

[RustyJC]

The primary risk for RVers on the GCWR issue is in civil (tort) law in case one is involved in an accident. Insofar as vehicle registration and licensing is concerned, we're hearing from some RVers that this issue of running over the manufacturer's ratings is now showing up on some state radar screens in that they will not issue license plates for weights higher than manufacturers' vehicle ratings. Will that trend spread, and how quickly? I dunno - my crystal ball is a little cloudy right now.



Rusty

 

[Dave Beck]

I don't pull a trailer, but I do carry a slide in here in NY. The way it's always been is that they go by your registered gross weight. That's the weight stamped on the regristration. Never mind what the door says. Go over that and you're in trouble. Also, how much of a load the tires can take. Every tire has a load rating in lbs. Too much weight on the tires - regardless of the registered weight - gotcha! Also, axel ratings are something to keep in mind, but most of the time it doesn't factor in unless you have a very light rig, overloaded. Most of us around here run duallys with the heavier campers. Not just for the added stability, but also for that extra set of tires. Staying ahead of the law is one thing, staying safe is another.



Happy trails !

 

[TMills]

What if you were hauling hay or something similar? Something you intend to sell?

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by TMills

What if you were hauling hay or something similar? Something you intend to sell?

Here in Texas, the laws are pretty liberal on farm/agricultural hauling. A farmer can haul cotton to the gin, wheat to the elevator, etc. pretty much unimpeded. The potential kicker is that you say you're hauling hay to sell - IF Tennessee says that makes you a commercial hauler, you're in a whole different ball game than the average farmer. If you're hauling intrastate, Tennessee Commercial Vehicle Law would probably govern - if you cross state lines, DOT regulations would likely come into play!



Rusty

 

[QRTRHRS]

From 390. 5



Farm vehicle driver means a person who drives only a commercial motor vehicle that is --



(a) Controlled and operated by a farmer as a private motor carrier of property;



(b) Being used to transport either --



(b)(1) Agricultural products, or



(b)(2) Farm machinery, farm supplies, or both, to or from a farm;



(c) Not being used in the operation of a for-hire motor carrier;



(d) Not carrying hazardous materials of a type or quantity that requires the commercial motor vehicle to be placarded in accordance with § 177. 823 of this subtitle; and



(e) Being used within 150 air-miles of the farmer's farm.



Farmer means any person who operates a farm or is directly involved in the cultivation of land, crops, or livestock which --



(a) Are owned by that person; or



(b) Are under the direct control of that person.



Farmers still need to have their vehicles properly licensed GVW or GCVW wise. My hay supplier got nailed by a local DOT qualified cop in his home county. He is the one I have spoken about that was made to drop his trailer to weigh it seperate from the truck. That cost him 850 some bucks. I have to ask him again how that day worked out overall. I don't know if he had to lighten the load or what. This was in a supposedly farm friendly county. He has his CDL and I know that issue came up too but again, I don't remember the whole conversation.



Also from 390. 5



Interstate commerce means trade, traffic, or transportation in the United States --



(b)(1) Between a place in a State and a place outside of such State (including a place outside of the United States);



(b)(2) Between two places in a State through another State or a place outside of the United States; or



(b)(3) Between two places in a State as part of trade, traffic, or transportation originating or terminating outside the State or the United States.



Intrastate commerce means any trade, traffic, or transportation in any State which is not described in the term "interstate commerce. "



No difference really between inter and intrastate. Do you need a CDL? Maybe, maybe not. It goes back to the weight class. You may need a medical card and logs only, perhaps a DOT# or more.

 

[RustyJC]

DOT doesn't always govern - that's why each state has its own Commercial Vehicle Enforcement statutes. Here they are for the state of Texas.



Edit: Being a farmer (along with a pulpwood hauler or an oil field equipment hauler) does matter in the state of Texas. Take a look at that link above for some of the exemptions to the weight laws. They are good for a laugh (at least until you get run over by a pulpwood truck on U. S. 59. )



Rusty

 

[Dave Beck]

The US Dept. of Transportation makes the rules for all the manufacturers of autos, trucks, tires, etc. The states merely enforce these standards. Some states even have higher requirements; but none lower than the government. If your gross weight exceeds what they say is law, then it doesn't make any difference whether you're hauling feathers or hay. Weight is weight. Commercial or recreational. Those max weight limits on the tires are serious business. If you don't think so, call your insurance agent. See what they have to say if you get in a serious accident with a vehicle that exceeds the combined weight rating of the tires. ( God forbid the accident is caused by a blown tire ).



Just a word of warning.

 

[GAmes]

How are you guys registering your RV's? Do you just register the truck for it's GVW like ~11K and then put a standard plate on the trailer? [/B]

Not all states register by weight. My duelly is registered as a passenger vehicle in Or. The registration has caused some raised eyebrows while getting permits in NM and AZ but no hassles. My 5er, also registered in Or, has RV tags based on length.

 

[klenger]

I just registered my 3500 today. Their paperwork showed the gross weight (not GVWR) as 8000 lbs. The registration shows 00000 for GVW. I didn't argue. The ownership tax was $576 and the weight fee was $7. 80. Go figure. I assume that the fees were low because it's not commercial.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Originally posted by Radshooter

If I get flagged into a weigh station with my fifth wheel trailer in tow, how do they know my gear ratio to determine my towing capacity? I have the 3. 73 rear end, therefore, my GCVWR is 21,000 lb. Correct? But how do they know that I don''t have the 4. 10 rear with a 23,000 lb rating? With our big trailer, the 2,000 pounds could be the difference between legal and not legal. Do they run the VIN? I can't imagine with as much traffic that they see every day they would have time to check everyone's VIN. Is there a number or letter in the VIN that they would know on the spot? With all the makes and models on the road, this would seem hard to track also. What about the sticker in the glove box? Do they look at that? Do private rigs even have to stop at weigh stations now? When I pulled with my '99 V-10 2500, I never pulled into a weigh station. We travelled through Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and Idaho. Nobody ever said Boo to me about scales. Am I worrying about nothing? Thank you for contributing to my education.



Steve

The answer is that 99. 99% of the time you're never going to hit the scales because they want to deal with commercial vehicles only, but if/when you do, I am pretty sure your GCWR is determined by your REGISTERED GVW + the REGISTERED GVW of your trailer. I think. Without a CDL you just have to keep it under 26,000 and you need to be under your tire and axle ratings. There is a little green book yo ucan get for like $2 at truck stops that gives you all the nitty gritty details.



With the GCWR that DC gives you, I am pretty sure it is marketing. Or maybe they are trying to avoid you breaking their parts while under warranty... . 4. 10s is easier on the motor and trans, but either truck with 3. 73s or 4. 10s can pull 21K, 23K or MORE.



Nebraska has a cool system where they weight you on the fly (I think?). Not prepass but something else where you get in the right lane, and then a sign lights up that says OK TO PASS!



I know Iowa has signs that say PICK UPS WITH TRAILERS MUST WEIGH... scary!!!!!! I've never gone through when they were open to get weighed...

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by RustyJC

DOT doesn't always govern - that's why each state has its own Commercial Vehicle Enforcement statutes.

True but with regard to commerce, the end result should be the same.



"Compatible or Compatibility means that State laws and regulations applicable to interstate commerce and to intrastate movement of hazardous materials are identical to the FMCSRs and the HMRs or have the same effect as the FMCSRs; and that State laws applicable to intrastate commerce are either identical to, or have the same effect as, the FMCSRs"



The FED uses the big dangling carrot to convey the message.



This still leaves each state free to regulate everything else. Generally though, when you wade through the state regs and the fed regs, you start to see similarities.

 

[Radshooter]

Thanks everybody!!! I really didn't mean to open a can of worms, but there is some really good stuff here.



Steve

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by Radshooter

Thanks everybody!!! I really didn't mean to open a can of worms, but there is some really good stuff here.



Steve

It is a can of worms. These discussions always bring out a lot of info. The kind of weights were talking here fall into a grey area state to state. Best thing is take any questions right to the DOT man.



Fact: states are hungry for revenue and our roads are not getting any less crowded. I know my state is taking a real hard look at "hotshot" setups. I also think the RV exception is heading for changes abeit slowly.