Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) How Much is Too Much? Warped Head?

[TyThompson]

Okay, so here's the deal, I blew a head gasket on Sunday, blew a bunch of coolant out of somewhere and then I had oil in it when I filled it back up. So I tore the head off, no cracks in the head, and I can still see the cross-hatches in the cylinders. (114,000 miles) Like the day before this happened, I noticed a little coolant weepage by the thermostat housing, didn't have time to check it out thoroughly, and the coolant level was fine. I thought it was from the housing, but now I wonder if it was coming from the head gasket.

So anyways, my question is, how bad can the head be warped with no ill effects. My manual says . 0004 per 2 inches, or . 012 overall. Using about an 18 inch precision straight edge and a feeler gauge, I can't get more than . 001 to . 002, but when I lay the straight edge on there from off the edge of the head, I can get . 003. You can tell the edges of the head are slightly warped up. (Or down if the head were on the engine. )



So my question is, what is the limit? What have you guys run with no ill effects? Should I just have the head surfaced?



Also, the exhaust valves look fine, but the intake valves are slightly beat in, you can see and feel the lip, so I guess I should have them ground.



Does anyone have the part number for the . 010 over head gasket?



Any help would be appreciated as I'm trying to get this thing back on the road.

 

[Partyat33]

I would have it done. The PN for the gasket is



3283339 12V . 020

3283337 12V . 010



I don't know if they make thicker gaskets for 24 valve. These work fine, just need to make a couple new holes.



Dennis

 

[Timebomb]

You should go ahead and have your head milled just to clean it up if its only out . 003 it shouldnt take much. Also have it magna fluxed for cracks. My head had no warping and no cracks and it saw 1700deg a few times. I guess I was just lucky cause I hear of cracks in heads with less heat. Its all depends how long you stay on the throttle at a given temp.

As for the . 020 gasket if you run over 16deg of timming and live in a colder area it can be a bear to start if not pluged in. It looks like your asking about a . 010 over gasket and that would be my suggestion.

 

[TyThompson]

Thanks for the replies, I took my head in today to get it done, should have it done by the end of the week, but cummins said it would be tuesday or wednesday before they would get my headset with . 010 oversize gasket in. They had to get it from the factory. They said they couldn't get just the headgasket, didn't even show any at the factory.

Oh well.

Now it's just time to wait I guess.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I've had the head off my '96 twice and both times it needed machined. It seems any time you pull the head on a 12v expect to machine it. 12-valve heads are warp-prone, more so than 24v heads, but at least you can shave off . 010" three times before valve clearance becomes a concern with the stock-thickness head gasket.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

I'd have it milled and o-ringed... they're a little more forgiving when o-ringed. ARP studs too

 

[dpuckett]

Mine needed machining with stock power levels for 240K. I went with the thicker head gasket, and am happy with it. It seems they are warp proned, like Vaughn said. Mine was bowed in the middle, though



Daniel

 

[TyThompson]

Thanks for all the replies, I went ahead and had the head milled, they only had to take about . 005 off, I went ahead and ordered the . 010 head gasket/set from cummins for $213. Should be here tomorrow. I thought about o-ringing the head and getting studs, but I just can't justify it right now, maybe next time I blow the gasket. :-laf

Also ordered 60 lb valve springs and a 3k gsk from piers, also should be here tomorrow. I don't have an exhaust brake yet, but figured right now would be a good time to put the heavier valve springs in. Also, will the 3k gsk help a little on the bottom end as well as the top? As in will it rev faster? Ever since I bought mine, it seems real sluggish until 10 psi boost.

dpuckett- yeah that's what was strange about mine, it seems just the edges were bowed... who knows.



Thanks.

 

[thekidfan]

That seems like twice the price of the HG's I've bought!

 

[WDimig]

he didn't just get the head gasket, the upper engine gasket kit, which is what it sounds like he got, comes with the new head gasket, new intake plenum gasket, intake manifold gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets, turbo gaskets, copper injector sealing washers, new valve cover gaskets, and the orings for the bolts that hold the valve covers down, thermostat gaskets, plus a few extra parts that are not used on the dodge application. i got a lazer cut gasket and fire rings for about $160 from east coast diesel up in lebanon PA. it will hold much more than the stock gasket, but you need to have grooves cut in the head to do fire rings, but once you get then rings seated right, you should never have to worry about it again, fire rings are killer!



wes

 

[WaynesWorld]

TyThompson,



If those valves are touching ---- you are pushing your luck.

I had them sink mine 20 to be sure that there were no serious damage done.

you will be $$$ ahead, if you do it before you put it back together. #@$%!



I had the same issue last week.



WAYNES WORLD

 

[TyThompson]

Well, I finally got the head set from Cummins today, and got my head back. Now I just have to put it on...



I had the machine shop face the head and grind the valves... they are all within the spec for . 039-. 060 below surface of the head. Is that the spec you were referring to waynesworld?



Also, I know that the stiffer exhaust valve springs are needed when using an exhaust brake or with the 4k gsk. I went ahead and ordered some since I had the head off, even though I don't currently have an exhaust brake (but i plan on getting one someday) nor do I plan on reving my engine anywhere near 4000 rpm.



Can anyone tell me if there are any ill effects from the stiffer valve springs? Such as increased stress on the rocker arms/pushrods/lifters/cam? Maybe they will beat the valve seats in quicker?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[WaynesWorld]

TyThompson,

I was referring to the very close piston to valve distance. I dropped mine in 20 to make sure no hitting was involved with my parts all working together. The last time down the track at Byron on saturdaywas my # 11 pass that day. Oo.



As far as the valve springs ARE concerned---- you will need them & they are NOT going to be an issue on the seats. Cheap insurance from piston to valve meeting. $$$$$

The 4,000 gov. springs will be an issue driving your truck around town. It will be very jumpy on slight throttle. It will be a waste of time since your power is much lower in the RPM band than that. I asked the same thing from Mark at TST just a few weeks ago. :-{}



Best of luck,

WAYNES WORLD

 

[TyThompson]

WaynesWorld-

I ordered the 3k springs, I had merely mentioned the 4k springs to say I wasn't getting any and wasn't planning on revving my engine anywhere near that high. I just hope the 3k springs help out my bottom end a little, too.



So I guess I will go ahead and install them, thanks for the help.

 

[WaynesWorld]

WaynesWorld-

I ordered the 3k springs, I had merely mentioned the 4k springs to say I wasn't getting any and wasn't planning on revving my engine anywhere near that high. I just hope the 3k springs help out my bottom end a little, too.



So I guess I will go ahead and install them, thanks for the help.

Ty,



I have the same springs in my pump.

I will tell you this--- if the pump is out- ---get it flow tested Oo.

It along with the AFC spring kit will do everything you need.

That was my biggest jump & best seat of the pants rush!!!

You didn't mention the fuel plate??

Do all of them together while its on the bench, then you will be making some REAL POWER !!1

Its cheaper to do it all at once than like I did it a little at a time-----#@$%!



WAYNES WORLD