How much will she pull ?

[TShikoski]

I am currently pulling a 30 foot Holiday rambler fifth wheel trailer which weighs about 8K with our gear and a light load of water. This trailer has one slide out and old Rosie pulls her quite well. My wife would like to "modernize" and upgrade to a two slide out trailer weighing about 13K dry. I am wondering if my old girl (truck) can pull this much weight, or what I would need to do to upgrade her for the task. As seen below, I have a five speed manual getrag tranney, BHAF, 16 cm turbo, and no exhaust restrictions. There is about 180K on the old girl but she is still going strong. Get's all the appropriate maintainence on all fluids on time as my goal is to keep her going as long as possible.

Suggestions please,



Tom

 

[cerberusiam]

The correct answer here is you need to upgrade the truck also. A 13k 5'er will push the truck well beyond its GCVW.



Mind you, its not that it won't pull it but stopping is another story as is the strain on the drive train. The gear ratio and weight is going to be hard on the transmission, thats the weak point. Brakes are borderline depending on what you are doing. They will work and with the manual you get engine braking but you really are on the ragged edge.



Power is going to be down without injector upgrades and\or pump mods, which is going to lead to possible turbo upgrades to handle the fuel, which again leads to the impact on the drive train.



Having towed almost 19k cross country with my 92 I found the 16cm housing and upgraded compressor was not enough air. I have plenty of power but grades are killer on the EGT's. A baically stock engine at half that weight was a trial to drive and maintain speed. I can run 70-75 all day and have power left over now, where before it was foot on the floor and slowing on every hill.



It just depends on what you want to do, how far you want to go, and how much you want to spend.

 

[TShikoski]

Thanks

Very helpful information and suggestions. We have been wondering if we should invest in parts or a newer truck. Cant stand the cost of a new one, but something "newer" which will do the job shure would be nice.



Tom

 

[cerberusiam]

If you were going to buy, now is a decent time. With the cost of diesel rising there are some deals out there. A decent 04 CR would fit right into your needs. If you don't want\need a quad cab the standard cabs are even cheaper.



If your just camping local your probably ok with just parts. If you want to travel very far a newer truck is a solid option.



My son and I are manufacturing parts at times to keep our 3 1st gens on the road but we each have newer trucks for comfort and reliability.

 

[Grizzly]

TShikoski, I'd get a 3rd gen 3500 long bed, SRW with an NV5600 6 speed to pull that 30' Holiday Rambler 5th wheel. I'm partial to a 04. 5 or an early 05. In mid 05 Dodge switch to the G56, 6 speed with the infamous dual mass flywheel.



These engines are the High Output with plenty of torque and horses. I would then get an exhaust brake and a MaxBrake Controller.



george

 

[RSchwarzli]

Might be a bit much. I agree with the above. I just did a cross country trip with my 90 with total weight at 20K and it is well modified. Without the mods I would have had a tough trip.



You will want power and braking. Suspension will need some adjusting. Dont forget all preventative maintainance before going far. Your truck will be pushing its limits so be sure all things that could go are fixed. Be sure the rad is flushed/re-cored as well.



As for a newer truck, I like to see the first gens upgraded rather than trader for newer, but in your case you will really need to look at it. For the price of the mods you would need you are into another truck. Depends on how worth it you see it.



For waht I have in the 1990 I could have a 3rd gen. But I like my old truck... .

 

[Ncostello]

For waht I have in the 1990 I could have a 3rd gen. But I like my old truck... .

In the tone that Forrest Gump used when he reminded Lt. Dan Taylor that "You're STILL Lt. Dan" after he was upset about losing his legs... . you DO have a third gen truck. According to your signature.

 

[RSchwarzli]

Details details... . :-laf



Actually that is dads truck although somehow it does seem like mine with the amount of time I spend with it.



Robert, can this be done... ... . LOL

 

[cotto]

So, if I am smellin' what ya'll are steppin' in... my totally stock '93 (other than a K&N filter, larger exhaust, and fifth wheel attachment installed by previous owner) equipped the stock tow package, will not handle a 38'-40'/13k 5th wheel. Is this correct? I too, would like to never part with my truck, but I would like to be able to handle a larger 5th wheel for a four hour trip a couple times a year. If I did want to upgrade my current rig to handle the load, while watching the budget, what would a "ball park" figure be for the basic/necessary modifications? Getting where I'm going in a hurry, is not as important to me as getting there without having to call a tow truck. I would really appreciate your thoughts.

 

[cerberusiam]

Oh, it will pull it but unless you have tweaked the pump\injectors its way anemic. Like mopeds pass you at times. :-laf I will not abide such shame.



I towed grossing a little over 18k from Seattle to Atlanta with few issues, but, I have upgraded transmission, better turbo, turned up pump, and bigger injectors. Stopping was a little exciting at times but not bad. The biggest problem is that is way over rated GCVW. Its a legal thing if something happens.



I would say $3000 or more to get it to where it will handle the weight easily and not fall apart on you. Braking is just not going to get any better because there aren't any really good solutions. The biggest expense will be making sure the trans can handle the power\load and cool itself in the process. The extra weight really drives trans temps and engine temps up on hard pulls without a lockup TC.

 

[AABEN]

I am pulling a 38ft 4 slides and all that is below all over the south and west with no trouble.

 

[ENafziger]

I am pulling a 38ft 4 slides and all that is below all over the south and west with no trouble. <!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

With a 1st gen or 3rd?

--Eric

 

[Flying_gage]

I have looked into this and your insurance could be null and void if you are involved in an accident. You are operating the vehicle outside of it's intended parameters, knowingly... .

With that said, I have done it and I never was comfortable with it. Being at the ragged edge of performance, (braking, handling and acceleration) always made me uncomfortable. Felt like I was abusing the truck.

 

[RSchwarzli]

With a 1st gen or 3rd?



--Eric

Ditto.





As for the weight, the truck will pull it. Again the question is at what speed. If you are going accross town that is one thing. IF you plan on logging 1000's of miles, might be much.



The truck will pull it, but stopping could be an issue for sure. Especially if you get into hills!





Insurance is based off what though? The door sticker, or the registered weight of the vehicle? Here in Ontario you tell the DMV what you are pulling. They dont seem to care if it is 100K lbs over what the truck is designed for. So would this reflect the insurance as the DMV basically said it was OK??

 

[cerberusiam]

Insurance is based off what though? The door sticker, or the registered weight of the vehicle? Here in Ontario you tell the DMV what you are pulling. They dont seem to care if it is 100K lbs over what the truck is designed for. So would this reflect the insurance as the DMV basically said it was OK??

The DMV is an administrative agency that is tasked with enforcing rules and collecting fees, thats it. They are not liability for you exceeding the safe limits of the vehicle, your own abilities, driving conditions, or road conditions. They are by nature shielded from any consequences.



If you knowingly operate a vehicle beyond its rated capacities you have created the potential for both civil and criminal liabilities that may negate the obligation of your insurance to pay claims. You cannot use insurance to negate the consequences of a "crime".



You are literally throwing yourself at the mercy of a jury. Not a winning propostion in our society.

 

[Shadrach]

Remember one very important thing " If Momma ain't Happy - Aint Nobody Happy" Even though I still like 1st gens it is time to upgrade the truck also. Get a good used 03-04 ( the best of 3rd gens IMHO ) Quad Cab 3500 with a NV5600, if you want to stay with a stick. If you decide to go with an auto this time watch as the early 03 were only 250 horse, California trucks are even worse. Add an exhaust brake and you will be happy, broke, but happy. The auto trans should be upgraded to handle the exh brake and the extra weight. Your CGVW will be around 20,000 and you know the truck will handle it, even in stock form. With all due respect to 1st gens owners they are a more comfortable truck to be in. Granted all vehicles do have their own set of glitches, but with research on the TDR you can find them, and there cures.



Disclaimer: The above statement is not intended to offend 1st gen owners. :-laf I owned and drove them for nearly 30 years.



Shadrach

 

[cotto]

You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the input. One last question, with all the GVWR aside, a lot of these posts have mentioned the lack of stopping power. Don't these cargo flatbed trailers and toy haulers have their own brake systems? I do have a "trailer brake controller" already installed. Shouldn't that take care of this issue? I would assume a triple axle toy hauler would have brakes that would provide plenty of stopping power by itself and really add no extra stress on the truck's braking system. Would this be a bad assumption?

 

[Texas Ted]

I drove my '93 DRW equipped exactly as your is (with the exception that mine was a 4. 10), for over 10 years as a full time Rv'er. At that time I was towing a 29ft. Alpenlite 5w. The engine never missed a beat all those years however the Getrag Transmission and clutch needed frequent overhaul. Backing was always a problem due to the high reverse gear. It always required a slipping of the clutch when getting into a tight parking spot. If the campsite was in any way uphill it bucked like you wouldn't believe. I always searched for a way to avoid backing it up. It was of course a 2wd. It was slow on the grades but always made it. Exhaust gas temps were always an issue with the 16 cm and it was necessary to watch the pyrometer closely. I had a very effective exhaust brake with the manual trans so descending steep grades was done safely. Needless to say there will come a time when you need to do the panic stop to avoid some idiot that cuts you off and those brakes didn't come close to stopping it.

We upgraded in '07 to a larger trailer 32" and tried to use the old '93. It was incapable of towing that large trailer any distance at all. The transmission and clutch failed quickly and the cost of overhaul is very high as you know.

I bought a new 6. 7 truck that is one of the first with the new engine and six speed auto. I've never had any problems with it thanks to the information on this website. I kept the software updated (frequently at first) and now it seems they have the bugs pretty well worked out. Its never been a 'grocery getter. '

You want to arrive at you destination feeling good and as relaxed as possible. Driving in heavy traffic is no picnic these days. If you can swing the cost of a newer truck, DRW FOR STABILITY, you will be a much happier camper in the long run and so will the little lady! Ted

 

[Flexiheep]

You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the input. One last question, with all the GVWR aside, a lot of these posts have mentioned the lack of stopping power. Don't these cargo flatbed trailers and toy haulers have their own brake systems? I do have a "trailer brake controller" already installed. Shouldn't that take care of this issue? I would assume a triple axle toy hauler would have brakes that would provide plenty of stopping power by itself and really add no extra stress on the truck's braking system. Would this be a bad assumption?

They should have brakes on the trailer, but the question I would ask is what if the connector falls out or you loose brakes for another reason. I was driving through Phoenix one day with my 30' bumper pull in tow when the trailer connector came loose... ... That is when you ask yourself how good the trucks brakes are. I always triple check that my connector is latched now.



I love my first gen, but to be honest it is part of the reason we don't get out camping as much as we would like. Classic case of the wife wanted more trailer than I did and she won.