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How strong are your trailer brakes?

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RV collision repair

I'm still a newbie at trailer towing, but I have an observation or two. I have zero electric brake experience, mine are electric/hydraulic.



My rig is about 9K, tandem axle with hydraulic disc brakes (they are dual piston, possibly quad, I haven't really focused on that) and I just replaced the hydraulic actuator with a Carsilie unit. On my shakedown cruise it took a bit of driving to get the controller tuned and during those early high powered stops, it was pretty amazing how much pull the trailer exerted on the truck, wow. But now it is tuned to a rate that feels like the truck and trailer are working together, I feel the trailer brakes but it feels controlled and comfortable.
 
To whom it may concern, again:

I welcome user experience comparing 12x3 elect. vs hydraulic. Since I'm facing (the purchase of) new hubs, I might consider the additional $800 (?) for the elect/hyd actuator module, if that's what it takes ta do da job man...
 
To whom it may concern:
How would you describe the braking effectiveness of a 3 3/3" wide shoe vs the 2" shoe in a 12" (electric) drum? I'm trying to decide if the $$ is worth it.

I ordered my HitchHiker fifth wheel with the optional large Dexter electric brakes you inquired about and am very satisfied with them.

I have pulled trailers with the expensive and more complicated hydraulic disc brakes. There is no question that the hydraulic discs provide great stopping power once activated but I did not like the delay required between brake input signal and actual brake application of the discs that occurs while the hydraulic pressure creates braking pressure. A 20,000 lb. truck and trailer can travel a long distance at 65 mph on a freeway in heavy traffic before hydraulic disc brakes can be activated and brakes actually applied.
 
I had a 7000 pound trailer for years with a Tekonsha electric brake controller, I could lock up the brakes with the manual switch at any time. Could also lock them up in automatic mode if controller was not adjusted right.

So yes; you should be able to lock the brakes if all components are in good condition.
 
To whom it may concern, again:

I welcome user experience comparing 12x3 elect. vs hydraulic. Since I'm facing (the purchase of) new hubs, I might consider the additional $800 (?) for the elect/hyd actuator module, if that's what it takes ta do da job man...



Walter, when I had my McElrath 23 ft 16k g'neck trailer built in 2002, I told owner Rick Connor that I wanted to be able to STOP! He suggested the electric over hydraulic brakes with (I think) 3 3/8 x 12 1/4 shoes. I was disappointed by the time lag between applying brakes and braking action. About three years later, Carlisle come out with an improved "box" and gave a discount to those who wanted to update. There is a very slight lag now, but I'm comfortable with it, maybe partly because it is such an improvement over the original. When I get a Maxbrake to help me get a consistant braking action without having to adjust the controller (Tekonsha P3) for each different load, I anticipate being a very happy camper (rather than just a happy camper now!). As far as the shoes go, if I have the P3 turned up a little high, I can feel the trailer helping the truck to stop, even when weighing up close to 24k combined. I pulled down to Columbia, MS, after Katrina with our Baptist Disaster Relief Team. ( By the grace of God, lived through driving through Atlanta coming and going!) Other than a couple of 3-400 mile trips and an occasional 100 mile round trip to our Baptist camp, my experience is local. Mark
 
Walter... there are some SAE (society of automotive engineer) standards for brakes on almost all vehicles licensed for the road... your trailer manufacturer has to conform to those standards when he builds your trailer... in those standards is a stopping distance at 60 mph based on a set of formula's... the brakes, wheels, tires and of course weight all play into the formula... it must stop in a panic at a set distance...

You will get a percentage of stopping power when you move from a 2" shoe to a 3" shoe... but I'm guessing that once you do that... the first thing that will happen in a real panic stop with the correct brake controller is wheel lock up... .

We pulled a 20K lb trailer with a 04 3500 dually for 250K miles before we upgraded to a different system... we had power disc brakes... . and on a light loaded trailer... say 15K lbs... . and the trailer brake controller set up tight you'd hit the brakes in a panic and all 8 tires on the trailer would lock up and the trailer would be in an un-controlled skid... . so there's a lot to say about too much brake on a trailer... and a lot to be said about when the load changes so does the setting on the controller.

I suggest you get your new controller, learn about it... and once you've got it set up correctly than decide IF you need the additional 50% braking power with the 3" shoe over the 2" shoe... because what your doing is adding an additional 50% of surface area to the friction... . I don't have to go into the formula here... . but with the same pressure (voltage to the magnet) you'd have close to 50% more braking...

I'd also suggest that you look at your trailer and remove and destroy any connection that will allow water to enter... if you don't have either butt connectors or soldered connections with water tight shrink tubing, any corrosion in these connections means less brakes... we have taken all our stuff and used an industrial shrink tube, with and adhesive in the tube so as it shrinks it melts the glue thus a water tight connection... remember that on light applications... there might be only 3-5 volts at the magnet... and any connection problem will mean less brake at that low voltage...

Hope this helps... .
 
Walter... there are some SAE (society of automotive engineer) standards for brakes on almost all vehicles licensed for the road... your trailer manufacturer has to conform to those standards when he builds your trailer... in those standards is a stopping distance at 60 mph based on a set of formula's... the brakes, wheels, tires and of course weight all play into the formula... it must stop in a panic at a set distance...



You will get a percentage of stopping power when you move from a 2" shoe to a 3" shoe... but I'm guessing that once you do that... the first thing that will happen in a real panic stop with the correct brake controller is wheel lock up... .



We pulled a 20K lb trailer with a 04 3500 dually for 250K miles before we upgraded to a different system... we had power disc brakes... . and on a light loaded trailer... say 15K lbs... . and the trailer brake controller set up tight you'd hit the brakes in a panic and all 8 tires on the trailer would lock up and the trailer would be in an un-controlled skid... . so there's a lot to say about too much brake on a trailer... and a lot to be said about when the load changes so does the setting on the controller.



I suggest you get your new controller, learn about it... and once you've got it set up correctly than decide IF you need the additional 50% braking power with the 3" shoe over the 2" shoe... because what your doing is adding an additional 50% of surface area to the friction... . I don't have to go into the formula here... . but with the same pressure (voltage to the magnet) you'd have close to 50% more braking...



I'd also suggest that you look at your trailer and remove and destroy any connection that will allow water to enter... if you don't have either butt connectors or soldered connections with water tight shrink tubing, any corrosion in these connections means less brakes... we have taken all our stuff and used an industrial shrink tube, with and adhesive in the tube so as it shrinks it melts the glue thus a water tight connection... remember that on light applications... there might be only 3-5 volts at the magnet... and any connection problem will mean less brake at that low voltage...



Hope this helps... .



Jim, you have touched the very reservation I have about getting a Maxbrake. With my big brakes shoes, I have to remember to adjust my P3 everytime I unload, then adjust again when I load again. Forget, and I'm either sliding or don't have enough brakes. Will the big shoes be too much for the Maxbrake to compensate for? I'm think it should work just right with my electric-braked horse trailer. Another concern, though, would be my 14 ft landscape-type trailer that has brakes on both axles. (My old S15 GMC also pulls this is the reason for brakes on both axles) Can the Maxbrake cope with such a light trailer, especially when empty, with brakes on both axles without locking up? Mark
 
Isn't control a large part of the element of stopping in the shortest distance?



If I'm skidding tires, I do not have as effective braking or control compared to being right on the edge of skidding, right? That's why we have ABS to prevent skidding.



Jelag, back in my MSF RSS instructing days you could take a training bike lock up the rear tire and settle in for a LOOOOONG skid waiting for it to stop, but with both brakes applied with increasing pressure (on a M/C, and yes you do have significant weight transfer to the front end) you need a seat belt sometimes those bikes stop that fast.



OK, you experienced trailer men how do you want your trailer brakes to feel?
 
The great advantage of a BrakeSmart or MaxBrake controller is that the driver's right foot determines precisely how much trailer braking is desired. Either controller delivers modulated braking exactly as ordered by the driver.

If the driver doesn't want locked trailer brakes, just like he doesn't want locked truck brakes, he eases off the pedal. Braking is performed without any conscious thought, just like driving without a trailer.
 
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Try it youll like it

The great advantage of a BrakeSmart or MaxBrake controller is that the driver's right foot determines precisely how much trailer braking is desired. Either controller delivers modulated braking exactly as ordered by the driver.



If the driver doesn't want locked trailer brakes, just like he doesn't want locked truck brakes, he eases off the pedal. It is as performed without any conscious thought, just like driving without a trailer.



That said Harvey my brain is in my right foot? (easy now I know what your thinking) they will just have to try the Max Brake on their own to feel the difference it's the best thing to stop the white knuckle syndrome. Or the 2 lumps in the throat.
 
I've got both the brake smart and max brake units, each on a different truck. . we tow trailers that can change load by 2 or 3 K lbs per stop based on how many HD clutches we off load and how many cores we load... . I'm like Gary... I like to feel the trailer brakes come on and want to hold the truck... . After we bought the brake smart I was convinced that at twice the money it was worth it... . and if you need to nail the brakes you know your going to get full brake action out of your trailer...

I also agree with Harvey... . more pressure a known amount of more trailer brakes, less pressure a known amount of less trailer brakes. .

On a nasty road where its wet, maybe some snow I want the trailer to start to come on and tug the load straight... . and yes we are changing the controllers with each change of several hundred pounds... .

What you might not know is that on an air brake system, the valves on the trailer are set to a different crack pressure than the valves on the tractor. . the action of the tractor/trailer is that the rear brakes are a fraction of a second faster than the drive axles and those are faster than the steer axle...

On a class 8 truck this is measured in a application of 2-3 psi and most trucks stop using no more than 12-18 lbs of air pressure in the spring brakes... but we're back to the fact that the rear axles brake first and the front axles brake last... . thus the load is straight...
 
All good information for sure and here is something to ponder. Tests I understand have shown with ABS that the fastest stop result when low just hold the brake pedal down and let the ABS perform its thing to prevent skidding of the tires. Now the trailer does not have ABS so if you hold the brake pedal down as described and the ABS doing its thing where do u want the trailer brakes set. I am thinking it still applies the trailer brake should grab just before the truck but it could result in trailer lock up and truck not. In thinking about this i don't see that as bad. Everybody else opinion or experience?
 
Abs

I not a big fan of ABS on class 8 trucks. Where I used to work (just retired sort of kinda)the new trucks had ABS I drove the old girl at the dance it didnt have ABS. When I did take a newer truck to the mountains in the snow I used to get the truck and trailer (tank on the tractor and a pull trailer) on the wet road nobody around and lock up the brakes. The boss looked at this on our tattle tail system and asked why. I told him that if I had to lock things up I just wanted to know what way that trailer is going to come around the tractor he said it has ABS and it should stop straight I said IT SHOULD! they dont work and it's kind of late when your in pucker mode. As a side note I locked up the brakes when the truck was empty not loaded I may have fell of the turnip truck but it wasnt today
 
After installing the BrakeSmart I still cannot lock up the brakes but it stops better & smother. The trailer has Dexter 12x2 brakes which I feel are to small & the trailer weighs right at 9900lbs. I am pulling 12v & 10. 1amps as I have a amp meter in line with the brakes. I called Dexter & they said about normal for 12x2 brakes with almost 10000lbs. There are no connections that are bad as I have got rid of them with solder & shrink tubing. All in all they work MUCH better with the BrakeSmart. .
 
It has been a long week. I installed a Max Brake not a Brake Smart. Sorry for the wrong info. That is what happens when you get old.
 
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