HUBB lifetime oil filter

[Removed at users request]

This is on the XtremeDiesel website. This is described as a lifetime filter. A completely stainless steel filter throughout. Two internal filters-a primary and a
secondary. All of which are removable, cleanable and reusable for your lifetime. The filter media is all stainless steel. Has anyone purchased this filter? If so, any feedback on it? HUBB sells a cleaning station and cleaning solution for cleaning both filters. HUBB states remove the filters and clean every 10,000 miles. HUBB states that the old filter media is outdated and time to move into the tech age with a superior filter media that works and functions more efficiently. I am curious if anyone out there has installed one.

 

[BigPapa]

We use this one on the pulling truck:

http://haisleymachine.com/product_info.php?products_id=2674

 

[jgillott]

So the Hubb filter is $213.74 if I am looking at the same one you are. If you read the bottom paragraph on the site, Hubb requires the use of their ultrasonic cleaner to maintain filter warranty. The ultrasonic cleaner runs $209.99. One gallon of their cleaning fluid is $41.39. So to get started will run $465.12. For that amount of money, you can buy 30+ Fleetguard Stratapore filters from Geno's for $13.95 each. Assuming a 7500 mile change interval, you would break even with the Hubb filter initial investment after 225,000 miles.

If that filter offers proven protection over a standard filter, then it would maybe make some sense. But it certainly seems to be a lot of hassle for such a long return on investment.

 

[BigPapa]

We use ours on the puller for ease of inspection instead of cutting filters. We clean it with break cleaner and air.

 

[jgillott]

We use ours on the puller for ease of inspection instead of cutting filters. We clean it with break cleaner and air.

It makes sense for that application.

 

[brods]

Humm..lets see....

1. Hubb website has a testing and validation section which only displays the cover pages of two test reports AND those cover pages are ILLEGABLE! Huge red flag, bullsh!t meter is way high.

2. Hubb website makes outlandish claims followed with asterisks or small footnote letters, yet there are no footnotes at the bottom of the page. Bullsh!t meter is pegged!

3. Iirc Fleetguard Stratapore is like 98.7% @ 25 micron. Since there are no test reports for the Hubb we don't know if it was 98.5% and they rounded it up to 99% or what. Point being that there are spin on filters which will filter as well or better than the Hubb.

The cleaning system is MSDS compliant? ROFL That means they send you the MSDS sheets with the product. (For those who don't know, MSDS is a material data safety sheet that everything today is required to have. Businesses are required to have the MSDS sheets for everything they buy or use in a binder for their employees to reference. It means nothing about the effectiveness or suitability of a product for its intended purpose.)

So it appears the Hubb is mostly marketing hype. When they explain how it "works" it either doesn't apply to our trucks (the anti drain back valve and the pressure bypass) or it defies common sense. They compare themselves to "paper" filters, not to the better synthetic media filters, like the stratapore. It will be a pita to clean and what do you do with the used oily cleaning solvents? It would be foolish to extend your oil change interval "Double +" based on that filter as they suggest. Given all the questionable or misleading claims they make it is hard to believe anything on the Hubb snake oil website. Buy a Stratapore or the Donaldson equivalent and forget the snake oil.

 

[Removed at users request]

Any thoughts on this HUBB filter other than ease of inspecting? Good, bad or indifferent? I am always looking at new products and each ones contribution to the proffered application.

R/S Russ

 

[Bob4x4]

This type filter is not a new idea.They have been used in racing and in aircraft.IMHO risking warranty protection additional critical risk and money makes it not a viable option for the average CTD owner

 

[brods]

Given the scammer nature of their website, what more do you need to know?? If it truly worked they wouldn't need to embellish the facts, nor would they have to change the company name at least three times (Lifetime Oil Filter Inc, 37 Degree Filters Inc , Hubb Filters Inc). It doesn't filter any better than a quality synthetic media filter. The hassle to clean it hardly seems worth it. As JGillott pointed out you won't be saving any money for a long, long time. As for ease of inspection, for a street truck I would think oil sampling would be a better choice than looking at the black soot in your oil filter.

If you look at the patent 8709240 they list on the website, it reveals a dirty little secret they don't tell you about:

A primary filter has a first porosity. Oil may pass through the primary filter to move from the peripheral portion to the central portion of the outer enclosure. A pressure-actuated valve is fixed fluidly between the peripheral portion and central portion of the outer enclosure. Oil may pass through the pressure-actuated valve only when an oil pressure differential between the peripheral portion and the central portion of the outer enclosure exceeds a predetermined threshold pressure, such as when the primary filter 50 becomes dirty. A secondary filter has a second porosity greater than the first porosity, and is fixed fluidly between the pressure-actuated valve and the central portion of the outer enclosure.

Many questions come to mind after reading that. Some of the most important ones: at what pressure does the pressure actuated valve open allowing oil to bypass the primary element and flow to the more porous element? What is the filter efficiency of the more porous secondary element? What is the relief valve set point?

So you would be buying a cleanable filter in a filter. You'd have no idea when the primary filter would be bypassed and when that happens your engine will get less effective filtration from the more porous secondary element. Until someone does some actual tests on our engines which prove this filter performs better than a synthetic media filter (doubtful), consider it a gimmick.

 

[HHhuntitall]

In the last 15 years, I have rebuilt several hundred 5.9L Cummins engines, mostly HPCR engines in Dodges. I have very seldom seen filtration issues. What I call filtration issues are signs of dirt and contaminants in the bearings, causing scoring in the surfaces. The few exceptions have been from trucks that had their oil changed at various fast-lube places, that used a house brand filter. I don't believe I have never seen an engine running Fleetguard, Wix, or Donaldson filters have scoring in the bearing surfaces from oil contaminants, unless it's been run a ridiculous number of miles on the same oil, or run out of oil. Those engines with scoring in the bearings often had signs of poor workmanship, which appears to be dirt, plastic, or cloth material introduced into the filter during oil change, such as wiping out the filter after dropping it, forgetting to take all the plastic off the filter before installing, or maybe even deliberate sabotage. Worth noting, most of those trucks also had broken oil plug flanges that leaked, I believe from being overtightened during install, most likely from an impact wrench and lack of diligence. These contaminants can often be found in the oil bypass in the oil cooler. It doesn't lie.


Personally, I only use Fleetguard filters when I can. They cost more, but there is a reason. A good reason. The Hubb filters have many drawbacks, and few positives, in my opinion, most covered in the statements above. I see the purpose in the race truck, and see that as a great purpose built item, in that application. But for the majority of us, I see no benefit to the system, only risk. With the cost of an engine being so high, a quality filter is a minor maintenance expense in return for reliability and peace of mind.

Interestingly, I remember when Lifetime Oil Filter made an appearance at SEMA many years ago.... Then, like now, that little Fecal Matter Meter fluttered quite a bit.... Kinda like the pieces in the oil bypass, that BS meter don't lie.....

 

[Killer223]

what about the centrifuge filters? i've seen them on a few semi trucks. would it be worth while on ours?

 

[Bob4x4]

what about the centrifuge filters? i've seen them on a few semi trucks. would it be worth while on ours?

When the factory oil filtration is enough to allow a half million miles in normal use why add risk or expense.I have been working on these CTDs since there inception in the Dodge application.The only time I have seen oil related failures was when the 24 valve 2nd gens were plugging piston cooling jets.This was proven to be caused by inferior aftermarket oil filters.While the investigations were being done Dodge was picking up the tab.Following the findings there were consumers crying as they had to try and recoup their money from filter companies

 

[Wayne M.]

what about the centrifuge filters? i've seen them on a few semi trucks. would it be worth while on ours?

Typically that's a bypass secondary filter that's used alongside normal filtration. Usually part of an extended drain option on big trucks, and an add on to our Rams.

 

[HHhuntitall]

what about the centrifuge filters? i've seen them on a few semi trucks. would it be worth while on ours?

The primary filtration system on Scania diesel engines throughout the '70-80s was a centrifugal type oil filtration system. Worked good, I guess, as they have a good reputation as agricultural and marine engines. However, with today's fuels and emission systems, I'm not sure they would be adequate without a secondary paper filter.

 

[mwilson]

The primary filtration system on Scania diesel engines throughout the '70-80s was a centrifugal type oil filtration system. Worked good, I guess, as they have a good reputation as agricultural and marine engines. However, with today's fuels and emission systems, I'm not sure they would be adequate without a secondary paper filter.

Centrifugal style has been used as factory fit by Mack and Detroit Diesel as well but always along with one or two normal filters. Don't recall any stand alone centrifugal systems...other than the Scania....

Funny story, had a customer that bought a Scania twin screw truck during the brief time period they tried selling trucks stateside. Same old story, European duty cycle DOES NOT come close to a USA duty cycle and it was a failure.....he finally ripped the Scania engine out and managed to fit a B series Cat in there....wow, we used to cringe every time he called during that process.....
But he did wear the thing out finally.....

Reminded me of the "Determination" posters ....

 

[Removed at users request]

In the last 15 years, I have rebuilt several hundred 5.9L Cummins engines, mostly HPCR engines in Dodges. I have very seldom seen filtration issues. What I call filtration issues are signs of dirt and contaminants in the bearings, causing scoring in the surfaces. The few exceptions have been from trucks that had their oil changed at various fast-lube places, that used a house brand filter. I don't believe I have never seen an engine running Fleetguard, Wix, or Donaldson filters have scoring in the bearing surfaces from oil contaminants, unless it's been run a ridiculous number of miles on the same oil, or run out of oil. Those engines with scoring in the bearings often had signs of poor workmanship, which appears to be dirt, plastic, or cloth material introduced into the filter during oil change, such as wiping out the filter after dropping it, forgetting to take all the plastic off the filter before installing, or maybe even deliberate sabotage. Worth noting, most of those trucks also had broken oil plug flanges that leaked, I believe from being overtightened during install, most likely from an impact wrench and lack of diligence. These contaminants can often be found in the oil bypass in the oil cooler. It doesn't lie.


Personally, I only use Fleetguard filters when I can. They cost more, but there is a reason. A good reason. The Hubb filters have many drawbacks, and few positives, in my opinion, most covered in the statements above. I see the purpose in the race truck, and see that as a great purpose built item, in that application. But for the majority of us, I see no benefit to the system, only risk. With the cost of an engine being so high, a quality filter is a minor maintenance expense in return for reliability and peace of mind.

Interestingly, I remember when Lifetime Oil Filter made an appearance at SEMA many years ago.... Then, like now, that little Fecal Matter Meter fluttered quite a bit.... Kinda like the pieces in the oil bypass, that BS meter don't lie.....

HHhuntitall....I was curious as to anyone who had any first hand experience with this set-up. I am not interested in using it for the same reasoning that you have. I will never use any filter other than my FL16035 Stratapore. I do appreciate your measured response. Rational and well thought out. I always say that one has to know both sides in order to make a learned decision about anything. As there are two sides to everything, not just one side; as some would like to believe is all they need to know. Thank you.

 

[brods]

Chopsuey I’m sorry you seem to have taken offence at my efforts to keep you from getting scammed. See I work in the industrial filtration field and the less than honorable people and companies, like Hubb, get me torqued up because they give the rest of us in the filtration business a bad name. From your posts it appeared you might have been suckered in by their BS. You also have to remember there are many people who come to the forum to ask for information, like you did, prior to purchasing a product, who then promptly ignore the sound advice they get on this site. Those people are not looking for advice, just someone to agree with them and validate what they have already decided to do. Your subsequent post seemed like you were sold on the Hubb and needed a wakeup call to prevent your purchase of the product. My bad for assuming your motivation was the typical wanting validation prior to purchase.

 

[Krew]

"Lifetime oil filter" should have been the first indicator of BS.

 

[HHhuntitall]

HHhuntitall....I was curious as to anyone who had any first hand experience with this set-up. I am not interested in using it for the same reasoning that you have. I will never use any filter other than my FL16035 Stratapore. I do appreciate your measured response. Rational and well thought out. I always say that one has to know both sides in order to make a learned decision about anything. As there are two sides to everything, not just one side; as some would like to believe is all they need to know. Thank you.

chopsuey... I apologize if I come across arrogant. I certainly don't mean to do that, I was only stating my experience with these Dodges over the last few years. I have been in agriculture 40 years, working on my own equipment and trucks, as well as anyone else's that needed help. I tore apart my first 4 stroke engine at 5, (finally go it running at 7, with a little help :-laf ) by the time I was 12, I was doing oil changes on everything from a 3406 Caterpillar in a 359 Peterbilt, to an old Case 855 trackloader.... At 20, I had a part time shop, mostly working on pickups and trail rigs (I love my 4x4s!!). I currently have a mechanic shop where I work on whatever comes through the door, although I'm currently not taking in any large jobs to get caught up on the current yard full...... Again, I'm only stating my experience. I am proud (probably too much) of my accomplishments and experience. And by no means do I think I am the authority on all things diesel. I am humbled regularly, probably for a good reason. But I am blessed to have a lot of experience with diesels in a broad spectrum, in both maintenance, repair, and diagnosing the reasons they fail, in order to prevent future failures. Please understand I only wish to help.

Having said that, I do not have direct experience with the HUBB oil filter system. Having seen what they were, I basically walked away without any further investigation, based on experience, as they are not new to the market. As I mentioned the Lifetime Filter systems, I am familiar with them, and they are nearly identical to the HUBB system(which I have a wholesale source for, through a Warehouse distributor I buy most of parts through). Ultrasonic cleaning may be a new addition, but the idea and features appear almost identical. I have seen failures from the Lifetime Filter systems. They were not directly related to the filter system itself, but to user error. Which is easy to do, given you are working on critical functional parts of the engine system. One person was using one on his 7.3 Ford IDI. The problem was the solvent he used, which worked great to clean the filter screens, but tended to leave a lot of condensate in screens, which he didn't clean out, thinking he had cleaned the canister sufficiently. This water, while a small amount, didn't do kind things to the camshaft bearings on startup. Several oil changes of this behavior, and it caused a failure. Another gentleman, (had a very nice 1st gen 3/4, 4x4, that ended up with a rebuild) had a habit of cleaning his while under a big shade tree.... not an issue, as long as you are careful and don't stuff grass in the canister right before installing on the engine....


I am only touching the subject again, as I wouldn't want anyone to purchase what I consider an expensive-for-purpose and potentially disastrous system, that has a high potential for causing a serious issue.... As for telling someone what to do with their money, that's not by job. I just want someone to make an informed decision.... Do I dislike the Lifetime Filters? Yes. There is not much worse than having to tell a fine older gentleman you have a lot of respect for that he's going to have to rebuild his engine is his pride and joy. And I'll leave it at that.

 

[Boehler]

I just received in the mail a coupon from my local Dodge/Ram dealer. It offers a oil and filter change, including up to 13 quarts of conventional oil and a Magneti Mareli Oil Filter, and fluid level inspection. The cost is $249.95! Synthetic oil would be extra, and owner is responsible for local tax and Shop Supplies. Also a 10% fee may be charged for oil and filter disposal.

Never heard of a Magneti Mareli filter before this. Wonder how it compares to Fleetline.