2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Humor me (making a 2500 a dualy)

[IWeiny]

Ok so I have a camper on my 1999 2500.



So my friend and I got talking and we were wondering what it would take to put a 3500 dual wheel Dana 80 under it.



Anyone know and care to reply? The list I have thus far includes:



Wheel spacers for the front.

New wheels and tires

fenders



What I don't know is if the drive shafts, brake lines, and spring pads are the same or not. Then of course there is short bed, 4x4 and all kinds of other variants which one might encounter. I guess there is wheel speed sensors and other things now-a-days...



Anyway just trying to learn more about the drive train.



Thanks,

Ira

 

[SRadke]

Hmm...

Sorry I can't help you much but you may need to consider the ABS as well.

 

[rweis]

There is a company to make your axle a drw. Don't know if they can swap the entire axle unit though.



Bob Weis

 

[ralphr]

lights

not sure but I think DOT requires front and side marker lights on dually's!?Oo.

 

[Jamie Attridge]

Uh OH I shaved mine off the truck!

 

[Wheaties]

You may want to talk to ToolManTimTaylor. He has a dually and wants to convert it to a 2500 so he can go up and down the parkway.



Its my understanding that the stock fenders are cut away beneath the dually fenders to provide more room, so you'd either have to swap beds, or hack away.



Matt

 

[IWeiny]

I have a sawzall!

Seriously though it was a retorical question. I think it would be fun to try though.



Would the fender clearance be an issue on a 4x4? I think ABS would be an issue as well. I am getting to dislike all this computer stuff more and more.



Thanks,

Ira

 

[Extreme1]

For the front you need the 3500 wheel spacers. There have been posts regarding the differences between the 3500 and 2500 Dana 60's but it wouldn't affect your swap. The tire ends up in the same place so there isn't a clearance issue.



The rearend is another story. The best (easiest and cheapest too!) way to do it would be to trade parts with a 3500. The boxes are the same except the 3500's have mounting holes for the extra fenders. There is also a hole chopped through the fender below the standard gas door opening for the hose that reaches the 3500 gas cap.



The differentials are also different on the ends because the drums need to clear the inner wheels. I'm not sure about drive shaft length differences between the Dana 70's and 80's. 2500 and 3500 80's should be the same length regardless of whether or not it has training wheels. If you have an auto your truck has a 70.



Duallys do need the fender lights and the marker lights on the tailgate and roof. Fedral law. Not that it's any help but it is a little known fact that Dodge did make 2500 duallys in '94 and possibly '95.

 

[parcher]

I worked with a guy that had a F-150 dually! He towed a trailer that was at the limit of the F-150. When he put the dually kit on the rig was much more stable on the road, hardly any sway which was SEVERE before. Load rang e tire might have had the same effect.

 

[jkeyes]

There is a guy down the street from me that has a 2500 swb flat bed dually. Actually it is more of a "hauler bed" design. Man is this thing sharp!



Jason

 

[LandShark]

Check out this web site:



Ricka Mfg





It's for Ricka Mfg. (dualwheels.com) maker of a dual wheel kit for out trucks.



I've been using this kit for 5 years and about 50,000 miles when ever I have my 3,600 pound slidein mounted on the truck. It uses stock 2500 wheels and your same axle and takes about 30 to 60 minutes to convert, depending on the type of jacks and tools you use. The kit appears to be very heavy duty and I've not had any problems except a thread galling problem from using air tools on one of the Ricka studs (use of slow spinning air tools is OK, or do it manually). I called Ricka and had a new stud in a few days. They explained the the problem was caused by the softer steel used in their studs cold welding to the harder steel of the lug nuts and told me to not use air tools.



I bought my kit from the JC Whitney Catalog. It consists of 8 long studs (male on one end, female on the other, about 14" long), and a rather large and heavy hub with 8 long tubes welded to the perimeter (for the long studs to go thru). To install: remove your lug nuts and replace with the long studs. Insert the large hub over the long studs and push against the wheel. The male ends of the long studs will stick out of the hub. Put the second wheel on the studs with the OEM lug nuts. You now have duals.

 

[stacerbob]

"you have dual wheels" Not a dually. With the giant spacers and studs all you gain is extreme leverage! The other wheel is not supported by centering on the hub. All of the weight that being put on the outside wheel is on those studs. You may gain stability but put a slidein camper on it and drive the outside wheel up on a curb.

 

[LandShark]

stacerbob: What's your point? I've driven my outside wheel onto a curb a number of times with no problem (with slidein aboard).



I never said my setup with the Ricka's was as strong as a 3500. However with over 50,000 miles of use with my camper aboard, including maybe 1,000 miles of 4x4 off road, on beaches, mountains, mud, and snow, from Alaska (twice) to Florida, I've never had a problem. This is real life experience, not guessing that it's no good because you don't like the sound of it.



Now if you know of a Ricka setup that has failed, I sure would like to hear about it.

 

[IWeiny]

LandShark and Stacerbob

This was part of my worry about anything like spacers. I know from Jeeping when guys put too much offset on their wheels they start having bearing problems from all the extra stress.



That said with these you still have the inside wheel where it was stock. Supposedly this would give the bearing a break... I also don't plan to do with my truck what I do wit my jeep. It is good to hear LandShark's success with these. It sounds like an option.



Anyway Ricka did not list anything for a 1999 though. What year is your truck?



Arrow craft has kits which I have seen before. But since I have the automatic I would want to upgrade to a Dana 80 at the same time. Hence my real interest in swapping the axle. Also I think it would be cool to go to 19. 5in wheels...



Thanks so much for all your help and comments. When I originally posted I thought I would be laughed at but I guess I am not the only one to think about this...



Thanks,

 

[LandShark]

IWeiny: My truck is a 1995 2500 (see sig above).



Give Ricka a call if you are considering going this route. They spent alot of time on the phone with me prior to my purchase, convincing me that the setup is quite strong. My main worry was all the studs breaking and the wheel and hub flying down the interstate at 70mph! They said that it has never happened.



I also was concerned about bearing wear, but with over 150,000 miles on the truck, everything is tight and no weird noises. I do run Mobile 1 gear oil in the diffs. I'm sure the wear and tear is more than the stock setup but the trade off is worth it for me.



BTW: The 19. 5" wheels are available for the 2500's with Dana 60, 70 or 80.

 

[stacerbob]

sorry to touch a nerve! There is no way it can be anyway near as strong, it seems that they are for looks not function. Glad you have not had any problems with yours.

 

[ox1]

I have a chumm that did that (converted from 3/4 ton) to a 70's Chevy. I made the steel front end spacers just like in the first link posted. Started with 100-105# blanks and turned them down and drilled them out to prox 17# each. Gotta few hrs in them puppies - I doo! Like it was said, the front is no big deal as far as geometry and strength, b/c the tire is in the stock position. Almost a yr ago now, still going down the road. Actually, not that much diff than the front end on the duelly Dodge is from the factory come to think of it.



As for the rear, I have a full size duelly bed that is red that I might part with. I took it off and made a flatbed for it. It is not perfect, but respectable. Comes with gooseneck - hideaway hitch, bed liner, and thick rubber mat. Also has Keystone running boards/flares. Stored inside.



http://www.snowest.com/fusetalk/attachments//TruckFront%2Ejpg



Just yank the fuse on the bloody ABS! I won't tow with it ever again!



I use an old set of rims off a Chevy as a second set and I had to get them bored out 1/4" for the Dodge. (Too big around for my lathe. )



As for the bearing life thing... . Don't the 3/4 tons have full floaters? Shouldn't be too big'a problem.



I agree that the stud job is nowheres near as strong as the propper unit, but if you don't load it much it should be fine I guess. Great for towing! A 3500# slide in unit? Not me.

 

[DBazley]

19.5's made dually conv moot

Ira:



I thought about doing the conversion to dually for my 97 2500 4 by. I tow heavy and thought the stability would come that way.



I first tried air-lift airbags, very nice, but not enough. I added Rancho RS 9000 x 9-way adjustable shocks. Huge improvement, but still didn't feel stable enough.



I then added the 19. 5 Rickson truck wheels with Bridgestone 245/70s in the M724 all season design. BINGO ! With that beefy 4500 lbs, 14 ply per tire capacity and the other upgrades... ... ... . it is as stable towing my '38 Sandpiper [bumperpull] 11,000 monster as any dually. Probably more so than one without the suspension upgrades it is safe to say.



Not to dis any Dually trucks, but your 2500 can be made to haul with as much stability with the right mods. With the old 10- ply load E tires I never got more than 22 k miles per set, now I'm at 40 k on the 19. 5's and the tread is only half gone or less..... maybe I'll get 100k, then retread them ! Consider not only the stability aspects, but the economy of not buying 6 fast wearing, overburdened tires.



Did I mention it sounds cool too, kinda like a semi with "singin' tires on the lone highway... . '



hope this helps !



David B.

 

[IWeiny]

Interesting.

I thought about the 19. 5's before I got new tires but decided it would be too hard. Besides I did not realize they had single wheel configurations for the 19. 5's? Maybe I should have put more thought into it.



When we just got the camper I went to Alcoa 16" rims with bigger Micelins which have a 3400# rating. But the 4x4 is so high that there are still some stability issues. Interestingly enough it is much more stable when we are towing the jeep on the trailer. So it is mainly for those camping only trips I have been wondering. Also the first few trips we had with the camper only I was still trying to find the right air bag pressure. I think I have a better handle on that now. So a dualy is just a thought since I know the engine will last forever, at the rate I am driving it. By the time I actually need to do anything like convert I will probably either a) want a new truck or b) need a new rear axle!!!



Lots of things to think about.

Ira



PS just did a quick look at the rickson site... Wow those are expensive too! I got my alcoas for $125 each... Ok definatly going to keep the current set up for some time...