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I can't give you any more power the crystals are melting already

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Flywheel bolt removal????

Pump Loosing Prime

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After listening to rattles and extra feedings I think my Getrag is counting its last days. Around town it's no problem but on the hiway for a half hour and she starts to get hot. I've checked from underneath and I can't keep a finger on it. I imagine now I have cooked the oil. I have added an extra quart (more better, cooler)but it seems to be blowing it out from around the tower cover (best guess). I know this could be the excuse to goto a NV4500 but I'm trying to finish the bedroom and move to my summer job with the kids in the next week and a half, ie. bad timing.

Any tips to nurse it along. Change to a heavier oil? I'm trying to drive under 65 when I do have to make my trips. Any easy way to confirm its sick? Pop off a PTO cover on one side or the other and look for ...

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Art
 
I'd drain the oil and remove the side covers. I have never found anything more then some brass. Its from the synchros from what I am told. There is a large magnet in mine stuck to the housing to catch chunks of metal. Clean it off if you have one. There is a boot that goes over the top of the transmission, mine was leaking, and it had a small tear in it. Got a new one from dodge, that is changed from the factory style. Its still on top of the toolbox in the garage, waiting installation.



Over fill it with the correct oil. Heavier oil will almost for sure finish it off. I use penziol 5-30 engine oil. It exactly matches the spec in my owners manual. Lots of guys use Mobil1 5W30 synthetic. Thats kinda like trucks, personal preference.



Good luck. James will prolly jump in, he is presiding member of the Getrag preservation group. ;)



Michael
 
Probably jump in

I only have twd and for the fwd application, all I read indicates that the getrag is a few teeth shy of a real tiger. More in the range of a gummy bear.



But, I have had extraordinary service on mine. So I tend to think that if you pet it, it will go a bit longer. If there are noises that are developing, you may have real trouble coming. Drain the oil and open the side covers. The condition of the oil and then inspection of the gears should give you some indication of what to expect in the near term. The gears should be mirror bright. If you have scuffed one, (usually third or od) that could account for the heat. You can see the teeth of the input shaft and easily see the third gear teeth on the mainshaft and countershaft. OD is way in the back and harder to tell much about.



Bearings that have lost preload will allow the gears to run out of proper mesh and will cause heat as well. To check for preload, or loss of preload, use a soft bar and try to move the countershaft (layshaft) forward and back, engine stopped of course. There should be NO noticeably movement.



Of the trannys I have gone into, the ones that had complete failure did so because of the front countershaft bearing or the pocket bearing between the input and main shaft. If there is movement on the countershaft, you don't have long to drive that transmission. And best to not drive it at all. Bearings are not all that expensive and replacement is doable by any fairly good mechanic. The various parts are too heavy to take down without a transmission jack. EZGZ has a good writeup on the process.



You mention loss of oil. You may have already run the transmission low long enough that you have scuffed the gears to the point that there isn't much chance to continue to run it. They get to a point that they will just boil the oil right back out. Hope not however.



Now you mention that you can't keep a finger on the transmission. Well I can't on mine either but it carried me to Vancouver Island and back (to Georgia 6400 miles total) and it has some slight noise as well but it also has 425k miles.



I have a 4500 that was run low (not by me) and I can tell you that they won't hold up to that either.



Check yours out and do the bearings if you have slack. Carolina Cummins just did his and could give you some input as well. If you don't use the fwd to hard, you should be able to go a good while more. Save your money and go to the 4500 as soon as you can but don't run the getrag to destruction. It is worth a good deal more complete and running than busted. Good luck with whatever you find.



Andy Mikonis is the founder of the Getrag preservation society and should have some helpful comments as well. I would venture to say that anyone who is running their personal rebuild is a member in good standing.



BillMaine is running a 4500 that he and his sons installed in their home shop. He is fwd as well and is at last report very pleased.



Last, and I think I stand alone on this, I run 85aw and have since about 125k miles. So I have 300k miles on 85aw. It does not shift as original till it warms up but I can adjust for that. It has ordinary brass syncro rings and I understand that the syncro rings in the 4500 will deteriorate if you don't use syntorque 50 dollar a gallon lube. Mylar,kevlar or something of the sort.



So I will stick with the Getrag and 85aw. That is not a recomendation just a comment.





1stgen4evr

James
 
How do you know it is geting hot do you have a trany temp guage, is it acurate. I just can't believe that the trans is geting hot under no load or were you pulling a trailer. A bad sender can peg a gage when heat is aplied.
 
I would venture to say that anyone who is running their personal rebuild is a member in good standing.
So thats how one becomes a member, hmm. . Looks like I need to buy a transmission jack and get started.



Don't lug 5th gear, keep the rpm's up until you shift to 5th. This will help keep the getrag alive.
 
Wow..... you think after all this time we would end all Getrag discussions... ...





Mine died this last January from the top cover gasket getting sucked into the cases and it puking all it's oil out in the middle of nowhere montana. I couldnt justify spending that much $$ to fix somethin that wouldnt holdup. If you want I have my old getrag I'll sell as it was working fine just needs new bearings. By the time I figured all this out in $$ and the bigger isse..... time I didnt want to pull my transmission more than once.





Oddly enough I've been running 10-30 mobil 1 in my wife's truck for some time and it helped to quiet down alot of it's evil noises..... so far no ill effects.....





BTW dont drop a flywheel on your hand... ... they hurt.....
 
end all Getrag discussions

Nope. The problems with our trucks have definitely been covered before and can be accessed in the archives. New guys comming on line all the time and we always want to see "our" question answered personally. I think the shared comradarie is as much of TDR as anything else. I have sure enjoyed the contact.



And like with the flywheel on the finger/hand, that is shared experience that is worth more than any manual. An ordinary flywheel will do a good job on the fingers and you can bet the Cummins wheel will do it up bigtime. The Sachs ain't no feather weight either.



1stgen4evr

James
 
Good things already said.



Rule to live by when running a Gertrag "never lug in any gear... . especially with a load, run 1 extra quart of 5-30 weight exclusively and pray every morning"
 
Survey Says..........

After removing both covers and looking it seemed OK. Then I got out the flash light. There they were, scuffs on forward and second gear of the input shaft. The counter shaft looked better. There wasn't any play back and forth in the counter shaft that I could find. The other gears were just too far back for me to even guess. Then it came to me like the bolt of lighting. 5w-30, 10w-30. In my haste, I remember adding a quart of the heavier oil. That's why it shifted just a little harder out of 2nd gear. Now I'm on a bindge of self floging to the value of a transmission solution.

It does seem to be doing better with the correct oil. Maybe I can hope for alittle more time.

Art
 
I dotn think the heavier oil caused the harsher shifting in and of itself. More likely bad timing of the addition. I have run up to 15w50 for heavy towing with no ill effects. I am running 5qts of Rotella 5w40 in my current rig now. Seems a little quieter than with the 5w30, but it caould also be the extra 1. 5qts. I try to change mine every 20K; sooner if I am using it hard. oil is cheap.



Daniel
 
I've been running 5w30 mobil1 in mine. It's a little noisy, but not too bad. I was thinking of switching it to rotella 5w40 this weekend to see if that will quiet it down a little.

dpuckett, what was yours like with the 15w50 in it? I've got a couple of gallons of mobil1 15w50. I'll try that if it worked well for you.

Barry
 
Greenleaf... ...



I think yer problem is your not usin dilithium crystals... .....





See dem der regular crystals wont give ya all she's got fer very long... .
 
scuffs on forward and second gear of the input shaft

Since you haven't lost the countershaft bearings, get a temp guage and watch for a change. Don't go far from home and don't tow/load excessivly. Run a few thousand miles and look again. It is possible that the scuffs will "run in" and temps will go down a bit. Keep it overfilled. Change the fluid a time or two if nothing goes off the deep end. You may get enough time to save for the 4500 and still have a core to get a little out of.



On the so-called overfill. If you check the location of the fill plug and note that the transmission is mounted at a tail low angle, you realize that it is only bringing the fill level to what it should be if the transmission were level. One owner suggested that with the truck in a ditch to the opposite side, he was able to easily put the extra oil in through the fill hole.



Best of luck.



1stgen4evr

James
 
BJMarshall,

I didnt notice a whole lot of difference of the 15w50 vs any other weight motor oil, but it was a LOT easier to shift with it than with the gear oil the shop had put in it before I bought it. I towed wih the truck with the 15w50 in it for about 12Kmi before I traded it off. If you have some 15w50, I'd put it in there.



-DP
 
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