Ideas and Recommendations on Heavy Towing

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Camping buddy of mine is pulling a 16500 lb (approx) wet weight, 14500 dry, fifth wheel and is contemplating drivertrain upgrades.

No comments on liability issues needed.

How well will the truck hold up frame, axles, driveshaft, etc? He has the engine equipped with a Banks Stinger kit, and will probably be upgrading to a little more power too -- I'll likely recommend a cam plate from TST.

It's a '97 (or '96) 12V, 5spd, one ton, 2wd, 3. 54 gears. He's thinking of gearing down to 4. 10s and running 19. 5inch wheels and tires.

- MAK

 

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My 97 had 200,000 on it before I made any kind of upgrades. To date I only have BD injectors and straight pipe. Motor is still stock, other than the injector's. The 5 spd was where I had trouble, 5th gear as usual. After the 4 th time I swapped the allison in. My truck pulls a 40' G/N that wieghs 8500 lbs empty. normal loads run in 10-15,000 lb range and the occasional 20,000 lb. So on average its safe to say it stay's in the 30,000 gvw area most of the time. Never have had a complaint on the power. Always wished I had 3. 54' when the 4. 10's were in it. The diff. has held up fine, no probs. at all. When the new gears were swapped in, the internals looked darn good for 200k I thought. Frame-- I would not worry. Only thing that would warrant 4. 10's would be the wind drag on the 5ver, just my opinion. Thats been my experience on my truck. Now I've got basically the same gearing as a 5spd/4. 10- running brownie in Direct and a 5spd/3. 54 running the brownie in OD.


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97 Dodge cab/chassis 1 ton,Allison at 545 4spd auto, Brown-Lipe 3spd auxillary, 3. 54's,11'flatbed , bd injectors, K&N filter,Cobra 29 CB, Wilson 2000, electcric & V/H brakes, 50 gal. aux tank, pulling 40'G/N flatbed trailer,
275,000 miles and counting

[This message has been edited by LARGE CAR (edited 12-09-2000). ]

 

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Mark,

Wow. I'm glad it's not me. I'd feel helpless with that much weight behind me. Now that's roughing it. #ad


I'd think 4:10's would be mandatory. Going to the bigger diameter rims would only hurt the final drive figure. I'd guess he's not exceeding the load range of the stock rims & tires, so he doesn't 'have' to go to a bigger diameter.

I wonder about the fuel plate. With that much weight, would he be in the throttle all the time? Wholly EGT! I'd guess the HX40 or 16cm housing, & no larger than the #11 plate, just to keep things in check. The gov spring kit would help keep the rpm up while grinding up the hills. I can't imagine towing that huge of a rig w/o more fueling & some way to keep the EGT safe.

 

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My '95 with 3. 54 and Banks Stinger Plus,which comes with a cam plate,no need for TST,only pulls 25k+ loads. The flat bed gooseneck has only been off a few times. After adding a Psychotty air unit and a BD e-brake I don't feel I need any other mods. I just have to redline it on the 2nd to 3rd shift as it is a big jump. Other than that and keeping a good eye on the trailer brakes(just like a Dodge mine don't self adjust well)I've had no problems.

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95' 25004X4,AT,Driftwood,Banks Stinger,Warn fender flairs and running boards(Play truck)95 3500,5 speed,Driftwood,Banks&Phscotty,34,000 GCVW apple and tractor hauler(work truck)

 

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I pulled with a 95 2500, 2wd, 5sp. 3:54. I had a 40ft. goosneck race car trailer. 2 cars, parts, etc... scale weight was always 22,000 to 24,000+. Had the pump turned up, K&N, and no muffler... got 15mpg at 70 with the air on, consistently. The 4:10 is absolutely NOT necessary! What you buddy MUST have, is an exhaust brake!!! My US Gear unit saved my life and others' many times over-- The new owner of the truck tells me that it now has 200,000 on it, with the only single problem since being 5th gear nut... very normal. The frame, driveline, etc wont suffer one bit if you dont beat on it.

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97 2500 CC 4x4 3. 54 5spd, #12 plate, 4inch open exhaust, 235/85 Michelins, PrimeLoc, Red Tops

 

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I agree with others that 4:10's are not needed unless you run a stock engine and planned on staying stock on power. The 12V engnines do much better at 2000 - 2200. With 3:54 you have the choice of shifting down to 4th if needed, with 4:10 you must be in 5th unless you want to be on the govenor and going less then 55. Lots quieter in the cab at lower RPMs. I would guess a power setup in the 230/605 range would be all that is neccarry and not create any EGT problems, not require ANY other upgrades to clutchs, turbo, or exhaust.

I have pulled several flatbed loads that where over 18K in trailers alone and stacked plenty high, back for KS to ND. I run 3:54 , 5sp, with stock plate slid forward somewhat. I still have the stock muffler on to keep noise down.

EGTs can be a problem running empty but are never a problem under a load.

With the duels he does not need to upgrade rubber.

The exhaust brake is probably a good idea. Never pulled RV's. Tandom duel trailers have lots of brakes which has not required me to had exhaust brake.

Brakes and power become more of an issue if one pulles in the West alot. Here in the midwest we have no hills. Just wind!

jjw
ND

 

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I tow a fifth wheel that weighs about 13k most of the time I tow. Gross on the trailer is 13900 but I don't carry much water just to keep the weight down. I have the TST 230/605 and 4:10's with an automatic and the BD Pressure Loc. This actually tows better than it towed an 8k trailer when it was stock. I winter in Arizona and although we don't tow over any extreme mountains, the hills are more than enough to require the 4:10's. With this setup it is rare to have to take it out of overdrive to climb hills.

 

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Dieselnerd is right-on about his truck... if you have an auto. , a 4:10 is a good idea. If you have a manual, the 3:54 is the right one to have. The difference is the final drive ratio of each gearbox.

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97 2500 CC 4x4 3. 54 5spd, #12 plate, 4inch open exhaust, 235/85 Michelins, PrimeLoc, Red Tops

 

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Please reference the sig below. I strongly believe in the GV Trans splitter. Normally the 5er 34ft will tip the scale at about 13. 5k. Running the 5 speed will call for some help between 3, 4 and 5 gears. I normally run the high side of 4th once I hit the cruising speed. Doing that I can run 65 to 70 mph and keep the RPM at 2100 to 2200. That is keeping within the torque and horsepower band of the cummins and not over doing it in the RPM side of things. Also I have installed the #11 TST plate. Temps on the EGT will run 600 to 900 post turbo depending on the terrain. I have the Holeset 35x turbo which handles things pretty well. What I like is setting the cruise at 65 to 70 and it stays there. My MPG will run between 12 to 15 depending on the winds and terrain. Happy towing to all... .

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1997 3500 SLT, Ext cab, 5spd, TST #11, GV Aux Trans, BD exhaust, Kelderman Air Ride, 60 Gallon fuel tank, Clifford Security, Reese 20k 4way 5th wheel hitch, Boost/EGT gauges, K&N air filter, Rancho RS9000 shocks, Brush Guard, DZee full length running boards.

 

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I pull a 33' Alpenlite at 14,500 trailer weight which puts me at 22,000 pounds total with my truck. I have had it all over the Sierras, Arizona, and Utah including some posted 21% grades in the Escalantes in Utah. As you can see in my signature, the engine is modified and it pulls the load easily. As a matter of fact, it out runs the passenger vehicles on the grades. The person recommending the exhaust brake is right on and I also recommend that you get a good pyrometer in your exhaust manifold and check it's function periodically if you like to run on the edge like I do. . I have one installed but it backed out and was reading low and now I am repairing things like a cracked cylinder head and trying to diagnose a new lower end hammering noise. Oh well, maybe marine pistons are in my future.

Steve in CA

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1998 2500 Quad Cab, 12V, 5spd, 4x4, HD Transfer Case, 370HP Diamond B Injectors, #4 TST, 16cm2 Housing, AFC Spring Kit, BD Governor Spring Kit and other modifications, Walker Muffler, 285/75-16 BFG AT's, Stainless Steel Tube Steps, Reese Fifth Wheel Hitch, Leather, CD, LSD Dana 80 Rear, 60 Front, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Rancho Steering Stabilizer, ATS Exhaust Manifold

 

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Mark, this setup(see sig. ) on my 215/5sp works great! I take it he doesn't have the Stinger Plus kit with the 14 housing. I didn't like the 16 at this altitude(too much lag and smoke)but it would probably be fine there! I really like the 14! My Banks plate was OK but the #11 has MUCH better low and mid range. The #11 is 280/685 with the 12 housing. The AFC kit is a MUST - much smoother low end pick up. Gutting my cat was a must too - it was plugging up. He should do the engine mods first, then decide on the gear change - he'll probably be good with the 3. 54. Craig

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97 3/4Ton, 2WD, 5SP, #11 Plate, AFC kit, 14 Housing, AF942M Air filter, Gutted Cat, 4"From Turbo, Airlift, Shortened Frame, Custom Bed, HEY FORDBOY POWERSTROKE THIS!

 

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>>Wow. I'm glad it's not me. I'd feel helpless with that much weight behind me. Now that's roughing it. <<
If your scared to pull weight like that perhaps you should have bought a PSD or Duramax... . hehehehe
>>I agree with others that 4:10's are not needed unless you run a stock engine and planned on staying stock on power. >>
A stock Cummins will pull the weight just fine, the ONLY thing that MIGHT justify a swap to 4. 10's would be 30-40 mph head wind. A stock Cummins will do fine.


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97 Dodge cab/chassis 1 ton,Allison at 545 4spd auto, Brown-Lipe 3spd auxillary, 3. 54's,11'flatbed , bd injectors, K&N filter,Cobra 29 CB, Wilson 2000, electcric & V/H brakes, 50 gal. aux tank, pulling 40'G/N flatbed trailer,
275,000 miles and counting

[This message has been edited by LARGE CAR (edited 12-09-2000). ]

 

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Thanks all! I tow 14,000 myself (not very loaded, 'damp weight #ad
') but this rig is several thousand more then that and we wanted some variety in the feedback.

I'll forward these comments and move this to the new "Towing and Hauling" forum.


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Big MAK
98. 5 ISB 5spd 4x4 Quad Cab 3500, 275s and Original PowerMax
A "WARRANTY FREE" ZONE
https://www.turbodieseltrucks.com